[BTS] SGOTM 25 - Xteam
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
. Good luck with Mongolia!Played three turns; took Mongolia (Spoiler cut that off for some reason); will post report ASAP (probably a few hours, though).
Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_BC0775_01.CivBeyondSwordSave OOPS! Think I didn't Pause it, so be cautious.
LOG:
[/SPOILER]
REPORT: Turns 31-34
T31: Peace with France; Cease Fire with Japan
IBT: Bismark completes GLH
T32: Execute plan; bombard Mongolia
IBT: NY founded 1SW of copper; JC & Mehmed also found new cities
T33: Note that Mehmed now has Alpha but won’t trade, as he dislikes us; Britain is now 26 turns from researching it; bombard and advance on Mongolia
IBT: Mongolia whips archer
T34: Attack Mongolia and capture with loss of one HA (at 94%) (granary survives)
Won't be able to play tomorrow, but can continue Thursday, which gives at least 36 hours for discussion and planning
Save: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_BC0775_01.CivBeyondSwordSave OOPS! Think I didn't Pause it, so be cautious.
LOG:
Spoiler :
REPORT: Turns 31-34
T31: Peace with France; Cease Fire with Japan
IBT: Bismark completes GLH
T32: Execute plan; bombard Mongolia
IBT: NY founded 1SW of copper; JC & Mehmed also found new cities
T33: Note that Mehmed now has Alpha but won’t trade, as he dislikes us; Britain is now 26 turns from researching it; bombard and advance on Mongolia
IBT: Mongolia whips archer
T34: Attack Mongolia and capture with loss of one HA (at 94%) (granary survives)
Won't be able to play tomorrow, but can continue Thursday, which gives at least 36 hours for discussion and planning
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Looking good CP.
Nice to see Alphabet finally showed up, too bad Ottomans won't trade yet.
Nice to see Alphabet finally showed up, too bad Ottomans won't trade yet.
Frederiksberg
Deity
Good progress, CP 
Granary surviving is very good news and it means that we will very soon have 6 pavillions and can start The Globe in Guangzhou.
Mehmed getting Alpha first could indicate that the AI's with cities far from their capital are suffering from maintenance. In particular Churchill, because he has two very distant cities. A bit surprised that Roosevelt settled another city, he also has colonial expenses on top of other maintenance.
Will return with more concrete advice when I get home from work tonight
Granary surviving is very good news and it means that we will very soon have 6 pavillions and can start The Globe in Guangzhou.
Mehmed getting Alpha first could indicate that the AI's with cities far from their capital are suffering from maintenance. In particular Churchill, because he has two very distant cities. A bit surprised that Roosevelt settled another city, he also has colonial expenses on top of other maintenance.
Will return with more concrete advice when I get home from work tonight
Note that HK only has one citizen and therefore can't whip. If we attack now with two HA, which will be available when galley is, we can capture easily, especially if we also attack with bomber.
BTW, HA and spy near Mumbai are searching for workers to steal in addition to eventually scouting for bomber.
Note that in three turns the chariot near Moscow could intercept two Russian workers (now roading near Mongolia, but expected to hustle back to their capital next turn) at the silk east of Moscow. Would the lb in the city attack the chariot if it was protecting two captured workers? Might follow workers with an HA; could attack the lb with the bomber (having moved it to Istanbul).
BTW, HA and spy near Mumbai are searching for workers to steal in addition to eventually scouting for bomber.
Note that in three turns the chariot near Moscow could intercept two Russian workers (now roading near Mongolia, but expected to hustle back to their capital next turn) at the silk east of Moscow. Would the lb in the city attack the chariot if it was protecting two captured workers? Might follow workers with an HA; could attack the lb with the bomber (having moved it to Istanbul).
Frederiksberg
Deity
Beijing should probably whip a pavilion soon and we also want one ASAP in Mongolia in order to reach 6 pavilions which enables the construction of The Globe. I would really like some workers in Guangzhou mining that hill. It's a long way to 300 hammers if we only have overflow to work with and no base hammers.
There is a problem with simultaneous chops in Beijing this turn. Suggest not to chop with the worker on the roaded forest but move him NE to chop the last forest. Additional forests have come within Beijings culture and I suggest we chop those as well. Kremlin is the key to unlocking hammers and even gold from failed wonder builds.
The chariot in Shanghai could join our southern army. It will not be in time to heal the northern units.
We could consider infiltrating Tsingtao with the Gspy coming out of Beijing in 3 turns. That would allow us to see how far Bismarck is with research. Might help with planning.
We can hope that Bismarck or Caesar are a bit faster going for Alpha.
I count 5 HA's and one chariot in our southern army. That may not be enough to take Mumbai. In the north we have 2 swords and 5 HA's and 2 additional HA's coming. I don't think the swords can help with Moscow, they are too slow. Better plan for them to go for Istanbul where they will be very useful in case Mehmed has built a spear. We probably want around 8 HA's in each army so we need one more in the north and 3 more in the south but most if not all of them should be built in Yan'an, Beijing and Manchou. So it makes sense for the workers building windmill (Btw. watermills on floodplains are better) to finish the road south next turn and then head for Guangzhou and Hong-Kong next. Leave one worker for the marble.
There is a problem with simultaneous chops in Beijing this turn. Suggest not to chop with the worker on the roaded forest but move him NE to chop the last forest. Additional forests have come within Beijings culture and I suggest we chop those as well. Kremlin is the key to unlocking hammers and even gold from failed wonder builds.
The chariot in Shanghai could join our southern army. It will not be in time to heal the northern units.
We could consider infiltrating Tsingtao with the Gspy coming out of Beijing in 3 turns. That would allow us to see how far Bismarck is with research. Might help with planning.
We can hope that Bismarck or Caesar are a bit faster going for Alpha.
I count 5 HA's and one chariot in our southern army. That may not be enough to take Mumbai. In the north we have 2 swords and 5 HA's and 2 additional HA's coming. I don't think the swords can help with Moscow, they are too slow. Better plan for them to go for Istanbul where they will be very useful in case Mehmed has built a spear. We probably want around 8 HA's in each army so we need one more in the north and 3 more in the south but most if not all of them should be built in Yan'an, Beijing and Manchou. So it makes sense for the workers building windmill (Btw. watermills on floodplains are better) to finish the road south next turn and then head for Guangzhou and Hong-Kong next. Leave one worker for the marble.
If HK attack is to be delayed for settler, then would rather send one of the workers to improve Mongolia and just one to Gang.
It's probably worth holding back the Hong-Kong attack until the settler has passed through Mumbai. It will need a HA as escort (will do) and there should be time for this since we anyway need to get our HA's back from Hong-Kong before the attack on Mumbai can start. Perhaps it's worth re-basing bomber to Mumbai at some point and do a recon towards SW to check for barbs and scouting enemy archers. Like that. I take it that I am correct about "India" city sites.
Note that in three turns the chariot near Moscow could intercept two Russian workers (now roading near Mongolia, but expected to hustle back to their capital next turn) at the silk east of Moscow. Would the lb in the city attack the chariot if it was protecting two captured workers? Might follow workers with an HA; could attack the lb with the bomber (having moved it to Istanbul). The longbow is very unlikely to attack. I tested this before worker stealing Toku in a similar situation. No need to bomb IMO. Useful intel. But the workers will know where the chariot is so maybe they won't go to the silk. That said you may still be able to capture them by trapping with the HA coming from behind." That's the plan then.
What is the meaning of the GSpy "infiltrating" a city?
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Frederiksberg
Deity
How does it help with failed wonder builds? Indirectly, because with Kremlin we have an abundance of hammers and can divert some to fail gold.
If HK attack is to be delayed for settler, then would rather send one of the workers to improve Mongolia and just one to Gang. OK. There is also a Shanghai worker that can go to Guangzhou. Shanghai has plenty of improved tiles and can do without a worker. I think the delay for settler will be very small. Perhaps use the time to whip a sword in Guangzhou that can be used for the Hong-Kong attack?
3 swords, if we don't leave one behind in the city. Yes, we have the GW so it's probably safe to leave the city undefended for a while. Yan'an could then use an archer MP as hammer sink instead of stable.
I take it that I am correct about "India" city sites. Yes, I suggest we go for the 2S of lake site first. It's very resourceful with lots of food. Further, it can be used to rebase our bomber and learn a lot about the island to the south.
What is the meaning of the GSpy "infiltrating" a city? The mechanics are simple: Move the GSpy into Tsingtao and press the "Infiltrate City" button. This gives us 4000 spy points against Bismarck and instant knowledge of his research (We also get visibility into Berlin).
Remember to use the culture slider to remove angry faces as required. This is often quite cheap because more citizens working means more gold. And beware that the city governor may be rearranging worked tiles during these adjustments. We always want to work our food tiles.
Since Churchill is our next target it probably makes sense to focus on getting 8 HA's near Mumbay by the time the settler is ready to leave 4-5 turns from now. Note, that you can close borders with Churchill as soon as the settler is south of Mumbai and he will be moved to the nearest tile outside English cultural borders.
Looking at the map it seems that the bomber can't bomb both HK and Mumbai from the same base. Makes me wonder if we should focus on taking Mumbai first. Whip swords in Guangzhou and Shanghai for a later HK attack so that no HA's get stuck on this island. I think we want to open up the passage to "India" ASAP so that more settlers can go there and claim the resources.
If HK attack is to be delayed for settler, then would rather send one of the workers to improve Mongolia and just one to Gang. OK. There is also a Shanghai worker that can go to Guangzhou. Shanghai has plenty of improved tiles and can do without a worker. I think the delay for settler will be very small. Perhaps use the time to whip a sword in Guangzhou that can be used for the Hong-Kong attack?
3 swords, if we don't leave one behind in the city. Yes, we have the GW so it's probably safe to leave the city undefended for a while. Yan'an could then use an archer MP as hammer sink instead of stable.
I take it that I am correct about "India" city sites. Yes, I suggest we go for the 2S of lake site first. It's very resourceful with lots of food. Further, it can be used to rebase our bomber and learn a lot about the island to the south.
What is the meaning of the GSpy "infiltrating" a city? The mechanics are simple: Move the GSpy into Tsingtao and press the "Infiltrate City" button. This gives us 4000 spy points against Bismarck and instant knowledge of his research (We also get visibility into Berlin).
Remember to use the culture slider to remove angry faces as required. This is often quite cheap because more citizens working means more gold. And beware that the city governor may be rearranging worked tiles during these adjustments. We always want to work our food tiles.
Since Churchill is our next target it probably makes sense to focus on getting 8 HA's near Mumbay by the time the settler is ready to leave 4-5 turns from now. Note, that you can close borders with Churchill as soon as the settler is south of Mumbai and he will be moved to the nearest tile outside English cultural borders.
Looking at the map it seems that the bomber can't bomb both HK and Mumbai from the same base. Makes me wonder if we should focus on taking Mumbai first. Whip swords in Guangzhou and Shanghai for a later HK attack so that no HA's get stuck on this island. I think we want to open up the passage to "India" ASAP so that more settlers can go there and claim the resources.
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REPORT: T34-36 -- MONKEY WRENCH!
T34: minor adjustments as per discussion
IBT: Stalin founds St. Petersburg
T35: Spy finds redcoat and longbow in Mumbai (will pause after gathering more info); bomber into Mumbai
IBT: Moscow lb kills our chariot
T36: Trap one of the two Russian workers west of Mongolia; send a HA toward Moscow to replace chariot and find St. Pete location just east of Moscow; note an English worker has moved into Mumbai; bomber reveals emptiness throughout India area;
SAVE: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_BC0725_02.CivBeyondSwordSave
LOG:
What would effect of bomber be on redcoat?
Should we send settler to India, if we are not going to take Mumbai, especially if we do decide to take HK?
Where else might we settle him?
Wipe out Russia before anything else, razing or keeping St. Pete?
Is there a Cossack wandering about, not to mention a panzer and Navy seal?
T34: minor adjustments as per discussion
IBT: Stalin founds St. Petersburg
T35: Spy finds redcoat and longbow in Mumbai (will pause after gathering more info); bomber into Mumbai
IBT: Moscow lb kills our chariot
T36: Trap one of the two Russian workers west of Mongolia; send a HA toward Moscow to replace chariot and find St. Pete location just east of Moscow; note an English worker has moved into Mumbai; bomber reveals emptiness throughout India area;
SAVE: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Xteam_SG025_BC0725_02.CivBeyondSwordSave
LOG:
Spoiler :
What would effect of bomber be on redcoat?
Should we send settler to India, if we are not going to take Mumbai, especially if we do decide to take HK?
Where else might we settle him?
Wipe out Russia before anything else, razing or keeping St. Pete?
Is there a Cossack wandering about, not to mention a panzer and Navy seal?
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Here's a little test save for you to play with.
Terrific help, leif. Answers most of my questions and makes it clear that we can still take Mumbai, but . . .
On your test map, the AI never whips another unit (so, after repeated air strikes I can consistently take city with just 5 HAs) -- why no whipping? Even if that is an anomaly and not reflective of our game, does the size (3) of Mumbai limit whipping to two units?
Also, in the test, if the bomber has not weakened him, the redcoat will consistently come out and attack an HA who moves onto the plain 1NW of city, making him vulnerable to a single air attack, followed by the HAs (redcoat died every time I tried this, usually with loss of two additional HAs, though I couldn't get rdct to take only minimal damage when he killed the baited HA). What confidence can we have that he would act this way in our game?
Archer from overflow in Yan'an, rather then stables; will infiltrate Tsingtao, unless others have issues with this; probably should divert most HAs to Mumbai and delay assault on Russia; will want to capture Mumbai worker and use him to build road to NY.
Will await feedback before proceeding.
On your test map, the AI never whips another unit (so, after repeated air strikes I can consistently take city with just 5 HAs) -- why no whipping? Even if that is an anomaly and not reflective of our game, does the size (3) of Mumbai limit whipping to two units?
Also, in the test, if the bomber has not weakened him, the redcoat will consistently come out and attack an HA who moves onto the plain 1NW of city, making him vulnerable to a single air attack, followed by the HAs (redcoat died every time I tried this, usually with loss of two additional HAs, though I couldn't get rdct to take only minimal damage when he killed the baited HA). What confidence can we have that he would act this way in our game?
Archer from overflow in Yan'an, rather then stables; will infiltrate Tsingtao, unless others have issues with this; probably should divert most HAs to Mumbai and delay assault on Russia; will want to capture Mumbai worker and use him to build road to NY.
Will await feedback before proceeding.
It is a turn zero scenario designed to let you test what damage the bomber will do. If you want to test more units, you should go into WorldBuilder and add them, whatever you think he will whip.
At size three, the city can only do 1-pop whips. Also, the city does not reflect exactly the state of the in game city because I cannot adjust the food. It cannot act in the same way as far as I know.
Sacrificing a Horse Archer to the Redcoat in order to expose the Redcoat sounds great, hadn't thought of that. Not sure what the AI will do in-game. Any one else have any insights?
At size three, the city can only do 1-pop whips. Also, the city does not reflect exactly the state of the in game city because I cannot adjust the food. It cannot act in the same way as far as I know.
Sacrificing a Horse Archer to the Redcoat in order to expose the Redcoat sounds great, hadn't thought of that. Not sure what the AI will do in-game. Any one else have any insights?
Frederiksberg
Deity
Came home late from chess so I only have limited time to comment (late here). The presence of the redcoat makes it even more important to eliminate Bombay (followed by HK) ASAP. Churchill must have Rifling. At least I saw no sign of the redcoat during the extensive scouting in the beginning. If left alone he will be very difficult to remove. A redcoat costs 110 hammers but the Deity AI gets a 40% discount so its 66 hammers meaning that it can be 2-popped. So Mumbai can whip an additional redcoat at size 4. Question is then if we should wait with the war declaration until we have built a significant stack SW of cow so that we can attack immediately with only a single airstrike. What do our odds look like if we leave cultural defenses at 20% and only reduce the redcoat with one airstrike? Might be better than moving slowly from the other side risking another redcoat and the attack will come almost at the same time because we can use the road to get through English territory. Let's hope Mumbai doesn't expand borders soon...
Remember the culture slider next turn when Shanghai gets unhappy. We could use the fur in Manchou soon.
Remember the culture slider next turn when Shanghai gets unhappy. We could use the fur in Manchou soon.
No I did not set slavery for him and did not give him rifling.
edit - Do you know how to do that CP?
edit - Do you know how to do that CP?
Frederiksberg
Deity
Seems like the AI have all been given the tech that enables their special unit. Good thing that Bismarck doesn't have oil. Question is if Stalin has both techs required to build Cossacks. Better guard that horse tile...
No, I don't have any experience with World Builder, except initial map creation, and that was years ago (and my son did much of that, as you know). If it's convenient for you to fix it in the next three hours, please do so, but your test has already given much needed info.
Will guard horse tile.
"Question is then if we should wait with the war declaration until we have built a significant stack SW of cow so that we can attack immediately with only a single airstrike." What do our odds look like if we leave cultural defenses at 20% and only reduce the redcoat with one airstrike? Lousy odds with only one airstrike, often no damage done to rdct. Might be better than moving slowly from the other side risking another redcoat and the attack will come almost at the same time because we can use the road to get through English territory. Let's hope Mumbai doesn't expand borders soon. Going to put at least some HAs west of Mumbai to try baiting approach, which will allow one bombard same turn bait is presented, then an airstrike when not in city. If necessary another strike, when back in city, but not having healed. Will try to get to attack state ASAP with max available units..
I cannot force him into Slavery. Gave him Bronze Working, Gunpowder and Rifling.
Can Churchill be "gifted" a Redcoat via Worldbuilder without necessarily knowing Rifling? Given we've seen a Janissary (ditto with Gunpowder) and Praetorian, must mean there is a Panzer somewhere as well.
What about coaxing the redcoat to leave Mumbai by exposing a unit?
What about coaxing the redcoat to leave Mumbai by exposing a unit?
"What about coaxing the redcoat to leave Mumbai by exposing a unit?' Now that's an absolutely brilliant idea!
