[BTS] Shadow Game: Monarch w/ Charlemagne

[coanda]

With a non-Creative leader, I think I'd just settle 1N or 1NE of the corn (I'd like to take a look at those four fog-of-war tiles around the elephant for the exact decision). Getting the third gold isn't worth the cost of needing a border pop before you can work the corn, not on an early city. And that's juicy enough land that you do hope to take it with an early city before an AI gets there first.

 

[MrBungler]

I'd just settle 1N or 1NE of the corn

After checking the tiles near the elephant (nothing special), I'm planning 1N of corn

Spoiler T37 :

Finished Bronze Working (no visible copper), adopted Slavery, began Agriculture
Settler out, moving north with worker and a warrior - what to build next: warrior, worker, or settler? Peteyboy earlier suggested worker-settler-worker; but if barbs appear soon, should I be fog busting?

 

[Peteyboy]

As a rough guide (I think it's actually based on total cities settled (I saw in another post) but on Monarch you shouldn't get any invading barbs until around turn 75 - 80, so should be plenty of time for all 3, especially with chopping (+ Imperialistic). Bear in mind, that you can always get a warrior or 2 out of the newly settled city (whilst it's growing with the wet corn.) - but you need the worker to assist with chopping.

P.S As a brief note, I only adopt slavery when I'm about to need it. You've lost a turn re Agr which would have been useful (1 turn less to wait on a key early improvement in that second city.)

 

[sampsa]

You seem to be moving the settler to an area that is not secure. Always always have a warrior there to fogbust beforehand.

 

[danjuno]

1N Corn would've been my other bet. And yeah, make sure you have a warrior fogbusting ahead of or stacked with the settler.

Edit:

Spoiler edit :

Is it just me, or is that shade of blue on the border to the eastern edge of the FoW a little too dark for Lincoln? Looks more like Sury

 

[Fippy]

I didn't read today so am late..an early settler is only good if you can improve the new cities food.
Or gold worked first would be fine on commerce poor starts.

Moving out without Agri doesn't make sense here
Could have instead grown one more size, warrior moves into position (as Sampsa wrote) and Aachen adds gems.
Making such plans moves peoples up the difficulty ladder, they are not micro but essential.

Or you can research Agri before going BW, but i think with such strong tiles size 3 settler is too early.

 

[sampsa]

Yes. I think you should work both gems (=size 5) before starting a settler. That's why I said earlier it's a "slow start". And by slow I mean your 2nd city is likely to be a bit late, because you have so many strong tiles in capital. It's not slow -wise.

 

[Fippy]

Size 4 would prolly cross my mind too, mainly cos city 2 looks so strong.
Easier to figure out when moving workers yourself..but maybe size 5 just works better with a chop.

 

[MrBungler]

You've lost a turn re Agr

always have a warrior

work both gems (=size 5)

Size 4 would prolly cross my mind

Making such plans moves peoples up the difficulty ladder, they are not micro but essential.

Great! Learning a lot!

I'll load a save before beginning Settler, then actually try to calculate the advised outcomes and understand the efficiencies , then run both size-4 and size-5 options to test my calculations. Should have time to play and post this Saturday.

Thanks everyone, appreciating the help!

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

I’d also strongly consider 1NE of the corn rather than 1N when you do settle. I’d place much more value on river ivory in the BFC than an extra gold you need to pop borders for. This is particularly the case given you’ll already have two gems and one gold. You’ll have loads of early game commerce - even if you have a lot to tech given your poor starting techs and not being able to skip AH - and an extra power tile and luxury without a border pop looks a lot more attractive to me. If you really want another gold, imperialistic working the ivory, gold and corn means it’ll take you next to no time to just build another settler for it.

As a more general comment, it’s good to learn not to get too drawn to shiny things. A gold tile in your capital or second city, when you’ve got a lot of worker techs to get, can make a big difference to the difficulty of a map. However, it’s food that is king and being able to grow quickly on to cottages is much better

 

[sampsa]

I’d also strongly consider 1NE of the corn rather than 1N when you do settle.

Yes. The main point of 1N is actually not the 2nd gold, but having more green river tiles. I think both locations have their points, but I'd go NE just to make a monument unnecessary (I'd go library for ) and to not lose 20 by settling on forest.

 

[lymond]

I was actually considering 1W of the corn, but depends I guess on if Aachen is cottage worthy. Ivory can just be settled on directly.

 

[danjuno]

I'm still curious about what's to the West. Looks nice w/ Corn, Horses and Wet grassland, but what else?

I think both locations have their points, but I'd go NE just to make a monument unnecessary (I'd go library for ) and to not lose 20 by settling on forest.

Fair enough, though given the borders already converging from that direction, I wonder if it isn't going to end up being necessary regardless.

 

[sampsa]

I'm still curious about what's to the West. Looks nice w/ Corn, Horses and Wet grassland, but what else?

Fair enough, though given the borders already converging from that direction, I wonder if it isn't going to end up being necessary regardless.

Monarch AI won't be giving you a lot of bs concerning culture and if you settle 1NE of corn all the important tiles are on the 1st ring. I think building a lot of monuments is a very bad habit - they do very little and people build them in the stage where every is important.

 

[danjuno]

Interesting. By the way, is it worth sending the scout back West to check out that spot near the horses and corn I mentioned earlier?

 

[sampsa]

By the way, is it worth sending the scout back West to check out that spot near the horses and corn I mentioned earlier?

Not really, I think. It's a decent spot, but unconnected and has no . Not contested by AI. Good spot for later, but not necessary 3rd city. Capital has enough to build a warrior to head that way.

 

[coanda]

I'd look to build a warrior soon-ish out of the capital to watch over that area to the west. Barbarians spawning in there would be inconvenient since they'd have nothing to do but attack you, and even on Monarch I suspect turn 40 is getting on towards when barbarian defense is something really worth thinking about. That warrior will easily get a look at what's around the corn, because that's where he wants to stay anyways.

I wouldn't hurry pulling back the scout to check it though; unless there's something amazingly good hidden in the fog, it's not going to be your third city site.

 

[MrBungler]

Ok, reloaded back to turn 29, before beginning settler. Growing Aachen to begin working mine(s) is clearly great - but one mine or two before growing?

Size 4 - 2 warriors out before switching to settler. worker builds 1 mine, begins 2nd - but Bronze Working doesn't come in time to allow chopping to contribute to settler build. Still, Agriculture finishes just before settler plops seconds city on turn 41. Worker is inactive for 1 turn before starting corn plowing.

Spoiler T41 - Size 4 path :

Size 5 - 3 warriors before switching to settler, worker builds 2 mines, pre-chops forest but again, the timing doesn't allow chop to contribute to settler. Worker inactive 1 turn waiting for settler, then both head up, Prauge founded turn 44, revealing Saladin. Worker again inactive 1 turn, total 2 turns inactive in this path.

Spoiler T44 - Size 5 path :

I honestly don't know how to value these two path options, size 4 vs size 5. Thoughts?

Additional questions:

1. What to research after Agriculture? I lean towards Wheel -> Pottery for cottages and granaries
2. What to build in Prague?
3. What to build in Aachen after settler? If warriors for fog-busting, how many till switching to worker or settler?

 

[coanda]

That warrior by the corn needs to get a look at the general shape of that peninsula, both so you know where he should be positioned for barb spawn denial and so you have an idea how good that corn-horse city is.

 

[sampsa]

pre-chops forest but again, the timing doesn't allow chop to contribute to settler. Worker inactive 1 turn waiting for settler

Not sure if I follow. Why are you pre-chopping? Chop. Pre-chopping costs your precious early worker turns.

I honestly don't know how to value these two path options, size 4 vs size 5. Thoughts?

No big deal I think, though I'd prefer size 5. Get to work both gems asap and settle only 3T later.

1. What to research after Agriculture? I lean towards Wheel -> Pottery for cottages and granaries
2. What to build in Prague?
3. What to build in Aachen after settler? If warriors for fog-busting, how many till switching to worker or settler?

1. Yes wheel-pottery is standard
2. Don't start with a worker in new cities. Warrior is normal just to grow, then build a worker once you work at least corn+gold. Chop.
3. If size 5, you probably have enough warriors for now. Settler/worker.