[BTS] Shadow Game: Monarch w/ Charlemagne

[lymond]

Looks like a city right where the warrior is standing now would be best spot W(nice ..that corn is wet over there). Too bad it doesn't work out for a city to gem share, but I'd not be afraid to 2 pop a worker or settler at size 5, even at cost of losing a gem temporarily. Yep, generally do not start a worker or settler in new cities. Once POT is in then gran in new cities would be a priority.

 

[danjuno]

Sampsa mentioned it doesn't really have any commerce, so it might be better to save for later. That said, I would like to see what's further west of the horses in case there's something that changes the calculus.

 

[sampsa]

I'd not be afraid to 2 pop a worker or settler at size 5, even at cost of losing a gem temporarily.

I think I wouldn't whip away such great tiles, unless somehow in a rush to settle some spot.

Sampsa mentioned it doesn't really have any commerce, so it might be better to save for later.

It seems to be the best located spot for now, so perhaps it could be settle 3rd. You don't do much with horse though.

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T47 :

• 3 turns til 2nd settler is out
• warrior scouted west, fish and sugar - NE of fish looks good - further west is coast, so it's a peninsula
• POT researched, Writing next? Something else?
• 2nd city? NE of fish, or SE of pigs, or?

 

[danjuno]

Unless the lack of tile borders is messing with my eyesight, 1 SW of the Corn would allow you to get 4 resources in the city radius, whereas the site you mentioned loses the horses and an irrigable grass tile (1 E of corn). I don't see anything you'd miss by settling 1 SW Corn.

 

[coanda]

I'll admit, in this situation I personally would be strongly tempted to settle 1N of horses to get horse + corn in inner ring, research Horseback Riding, and just conquer the whole continent with horse archers. The learning value of that might be limited.

 

[MrBungler]

Unless the lack of tile borders is messing with my eyesight, 1 SW of the Corn would allow you to get 4 resources in the city radius, whereas the site you mentioned loses the horses and an irrigable grass tile (1 E of corn). I don't see anything you'd miss by settling 1 SW Corn.

you're right, I was typing this post with two kids chittering on my lap, begging me to come play

 

[MrBungler]

I'll admit, in this situation I personally would be strongly tempted to settle 1N of horses to get horse + corn in inner ring, research Horseback Riding, and just conquer the whole continent with horse archers. The learning value of that might be limited.

Well I'd still learn something - I've always been a builder, never a conqueror

 

[Mr_Trotsky]

I’d go south east of the corn. The fish and sugar are for another city. You can get two cities out of all that food and what you can get in the BFC is king at this stage. The value of anything out of it should be heavily discounted unless creative.

Unless I’m mistaken, and you’ve already got a second worker, I’d also have gone worker first given the land there isn’t contested. When you settle you’re going to be unconnected and putting one hammer a turn into a granary while growing on a three food tile. It’s debatable whether it’s a net benefit when settled. Worker first would have meant you could chop the forest NW of Aachen and then put a road on the tile. That would have saved 2/3 turns on building the settler and then 1 turn moving to the new city site. You’d end up settling about three turns later but you’d already have a worker to improve the corn and the horse meaning the city would start contributing sooner (I think).

I’m also naturally a builder and you need to push against that to move up the levels. Perhaps play it through peacefully (until you kill everyone) because getting feedback on the approach is probably more valuable and then come back to see how it would have played out with horse archers? Comparing, so you can see how powerful getting lots of AI cities early can be, is the best way to kick the peacemongering habit!

 

[lymond]

Bring that warrior back now...keep the area secure for the settler. Warrior SW of Aachen needs to move to a better busting position down there

 

[MrBungler]

I’d also have gone worker first

that makes a lot of sense - I'll reload and do just that, also move my warriors as lymond suggested

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T51 :

• reloaded to turn 44, built worker before settler, chopped forest and built road
• repositioned warrior SE of Aachen, just in time for a barb warrior to appear
• brought other warrior back towards wet corn
• settler out, moving with worker towards wet corn
• building worker in Aachen, warrior in Prague
• writing finishes next turn, considering Alphabet or Iron Working. Better options?

 

[sampsa]

Management of Prague could be improved a lot. I assume you are in slavery? One reason why you should close to never start with a worker is because 1-pop whipping it (perhaps using a chop) is so much better. -bar needed to fill to grow from size 1 -> 2 is 22 long and it can be transformed into 30.

I'd probably start to chop after improving corn, then switch to worker when chop completes, whip immediately when available. Then the order of importance is imo gold, chop into granary, ivory.

 

[MrBungler]

Sorry for the pause, crazy week at work

Spoiler T55 :

• Prague under new management, ala sampsa: building new worker, set old worker to chopping, will whip, improve gold, chop granary, improve ivory
• Vienna settled, building granary, then barb archer appeared
• Writing completed, researching iron working?
• Aachen will finish worker soon, settler?

 

[Fippy]

Tricky situation at Vienna..i think move your warrior back so the Archer doesn't come closer (if they are not yet in attack mode which seems really early for Monarch).
Need a backup from Aachen asap.

What would be your reasoning for Iron Working?

 

[MrBungler]

Tricky situation at Vienna

Agreed, I'll follow your advice

reasoning for Iron Working?

reveal iron to inform future city placement, ability to remove jungle. Also considered Archery, Alphabet, or Mathematics - unsure about the relative values

 

[coanda]

Iron Working is almost never a correct tech to self-research during the initial expansion phase.

Jungles take far too many worker-turns to clear; building extra workers to keep up with jungle-clearing instead of more settlers to just get more cities that have more tiles that don't need jungles cleared is not a good trade-off. Treat those tiles as dead spaces until your initial expansion has slowed. If you want to expand militarily, swordsmen are a bad gamble; you either go quick with axes or chariots, or the slower "rushing" unit is horse archers. If you're not going for any of those (and don't have a relevant unique unit), you wait for Construction. Revealing Iron isn't all that useful if you already see a source of copper, horses, or ivory. And the trading value of Iron Working research is minimal, because the AIs love to research it themselves - so you often can't trade it to them by the time Alphabet trades open up, but can get it from them relatively easily unless you're seriously out-teching the AIs.

 

[sampsa]

Yes, IW is nearly always the wrong choice. I can think only of praetorians as a reason or maybe maybe a huge city spot with and double gems or something.

I think maths is a pretty decent tech if you can get it fast enough to still have plenty of forest around.

 

[MrBungler]

Thanks coanda for the breakdown, and sampsa for the math recommendation. Really grateful to everyone; it's humbling that y'all take the time to explain the basics to a newb.

I'll try to squeeze in a few turns after the kids go to sleep

 

[MrBungler]

Spoiler T64 :

• Switched to researching Mathematics
• Chopped worker at Prague; Built mine; whipped granary; built camp; workers currently cottaging, and city building library
• warrior ducked into borders at Vienna, and archer barb didn't pursue. Reinforcing warrior arrived from Aachen, both warriors entered jungle, one ambushed but survived, W of Vienna mostly fog-busted, trying different warrior spots
• Corn and horses improved at Vienna, worker building roads, Vienna building granary - can whip soon
• Aachen built settler, now building granary; worker built roads south to pigs, to hurry settler
• planning 4th city S of pigs - grabs wheat, a flood plain, and lots of river tiles