Should confederate monuments be destroyed?

[luiz]

Well reading quickly about Nathan Forrest it seems that after his involvement with the KKK he actually became engaged in racial reconciliation, opposed all sorts of violence against blacks and even spoke to black communities and churches urging them to go out and vote and to come live near the white people (i.e., end segregation). For this he was branded either a race traitor or a demented old man by his old colleagues and the southern press.

So I think that Gawker article that Traitorfish posted was a bit off the mark, or it was more concerned in signaling righteous SJW fury than actually portraying a man who substantially evolved his mentality near the end of his life.

 

[Traitorfish]

Was the statue erected in honour of Forrest the Conciliator, or Forrest the Violent Racist?

The fact that he's dressed in full Confederate uniform, on horseback, brandishing a pistol and wearing a grimace to put the devil off his supper weighs towards the second interpretation.

 

[luiz]

Was the statue erected in honour of Forrest the Conciliator, or Forrest the Violent Racist?

The fact that he's dressed in full Confederate uniform, on horseback, brandishing a pistol and wearing a grimace to put the devil off his supper weighs towards the second interpretation.

I agree, the statue was done by an a-hole with the clear intention of giving the finger to the civil rights movement.

I was rather referring to the tone of the article, that only portrays Forrest as a "horrible person" worthy of our righteous hatred, and doesn't even mention the fact that the man actually took steps against racist violence and towards reconciliation (because clearly a Confederate can be nothing other than a cartoon villain).

 

[Evie]

Well, yes. That's why I'm saying a pointed face-covering hood would be more accurate (though I'd argue the grimance to put the devil off is more to do with the artistic qualifications of the "artist" )

That's the crux of the matter. Even where someone to have done a great deal of good unrelated to the Civil War - a statue that transparently celebrates military contributions is very hard to repurpose as a statue to celebrate other ventures.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You do realize, don't you, that he was clarifying it to ME? I'm the one who didn't have all the facts. HE is the one I was having the argument with. Not you - at least not at first. But you seem determined to have the last word in a side conversation you weren't even part of in the beginning.

Can you just drop this?

Yeah... I tend to reply when someone has a massive snark-fest at me for daring to comment on an open forum. Funny that. Maybe you could chat exclusively via PM if you don't want people "interrupting" your private conversations.

 

[Nexlev]

I think it's a local issue, and since I don't live in the south I don't think I have an understanding or skin in the game.

Rhetorically though, if there was a movement to remove likeness of historical figures where I live, because of a judgement on today's morals... I'd probably be in opposition.

 

[Evie]

Non-rethorically, the city of Montreal has decided to remove the name of Jeffrey Amherst from the street named after him for that little incident of "suggesting" to officers under his authority the use of smallpox as a weapon against the Native people.

I have zero problem with this.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Yeah... I tend to reply when someone has a massive snark-fest at me for daring to comment on an open forum. Funny that. Maybe you could chat exclusively via PM if you don't want people "interrupting" your private conversations.

So you're STILL insistent on having your two cents in a side conversation that was never about you in the first place, and that the original participants have settled.

O-kay... anything for post count, I guess.

 

[Lexicus]

Was the statue erected in honour of Forrest the Conciliator, or Forrest the Violent Racist?

Another question - does Forrest the Conciliator actually, in any sense, redeem Forrest the Violent Racist?

 

[luiz]

Another question - does Forrest the Conciliator actually, in any sense, redeem Forrest the Violent Racist?

In many senses, yes. If you believe in redemption at all - and it's fine and consistent not to believe in it. But most people do.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

So you're STILL insistent on having your two cents in a side conversation that was never about you in the first place, and that the original participants have settled.

O-kay... anything for post count, I guess.

Well I mean you didn't need to reply. Maybe your post count needs boosting too?

 

[metalhead]

The Confederates are only heroes because they were captured. I prefer people who weren't captured.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well I mean you didn't need to reply. Maybe your post count needs boosting too?

My post count is just fine, thanks.

Feel free to drop out any time from an argument that you were never part of and which was resolved days ago.

 

[Kyriakos]

The Confederates are only heroes because they were captured. I prefer people who weren't captured.

I c wot u did thar

 

[Manfred Belheim]

My post count is just fine, thanks.

Feel free to drop out any time from an argument that you were never part of and which was resolved days ago.

Okay, will do. I'll keep you posted. (obligatory reminder of the fact that this is an open forum etc)

 

[Berzerker]

Well reading quickly about Nathan Forrest it seems that after his involvement with the KKK he actually became engaged in racial reconciliation, opposed all sorts of violence against blacks and even spoke to black communities and churches urging them to go out and vote and to come live near the white people (i.e., end segregation). For this he was branded either a race traitor or a demented old man by his old colleagues and the southern press.

So I think that Gawker article that Traitorfish posted was a bit off the mark, or it was more concerned in signaling righteous SJW fury than actually portraying a man who substantially evolved his mentality near the end of his life.

I did not know that

Was the statue erected in honour of Forrest the Conciliator, or Forrest the Violent Racist?

The fact that he's dressed in full Confederate uniform, on horseback, brandishing a pistol and wearing a grimace to put the devil off his supper weighs towards the second interpretation.

Forrest the cavalry general... but by the looks of that statue, it should be destroyed lest it ruin the museum or neighborhood afflicted by it.

Another question - does Forrest the Conciliator actually, in any sense, redeem Forrest the Violent Racist?

Depends on who decides, it may not absolve him but I think its better than never wanting to help heal wounds you've caused. If cosmic justice has any say on the matter, I imagine his victims will decide how much if any redemption he deserves. Since most of them were probably Christians who value redemption I suspect he's doing less time for his crimes.