Should it be harder for Asians to get into good schools?

[Narz]

My mom's always sending me stuff (or talking about it to me when I visit) that I mostly disagree with from libertarian sites like JewishWorldReview but one thing I couldn't really disagree on was an article about affirmative action about how it's harder for Asian students to get into good universities because there are already so many Asian students there.

I'm not a huge fan of affirmative action in general but at least I can see the point in making university more accessible to poorer black & Hispanic students but I don't see any point in making it even harder for Asians than whites to get in. Asians aren't particularly more privileged (most Asian people I know are typical working class folks) than other Americans, why should they be punished for their strong academic work ethic?

Anyone want to play devil's advocate here & take the opposing side?

 

[Synobun]

My mom's always sending me stuff (or talking about it to me when I visit) that I mostly disagree with from libertarian sites like JewishWorldReview but one thing I couldn't really disagree on was an article about affirmative action about how it's harder for Asian students to get into good universities because there are already so many Asian students there.

I'm not a huge fan of affirmative action in general but at least I can see the point in making university more accessible to poorer black & Hispanic students but I don't see any point in making it even harder for Asians than whites to get in. Asians aren't particularly more privileged (most Asian people I know are typical working class folks) than other Americans, why should they be punished for their strong academic work ethic?

Anyone want to play devil's advocate here & take the opposing side?

If there is an abundance of Asian students, wouldn't it be economically sound to expand the university to let even more students in?

 

[JollyRoger]

Given Pearl Harbor, why are we letting any Asians into any of our universities?

 

[Leonel]

Given Pearl Harbor, why are we letting any Asians into any of our universitites?

I agree! It is offensive for Asian's to even be in the US after Pearl Harbor!

 

[carmen510]

Given Pearl Harbor, why are we letting any Asians into any of our universitites?

As an Asian-American, I must admit that I laughed pretty hard.

There shouldn't be any preferential treatment based on race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, etc.

If affirmative action is going to exist, at least base it on income-level rather than race or ethnicity. It is harder for a poor white, black, or Hispanic student to get into a competitive university than it is for a rich white, black, or Hispanic student, pretty much regardless of academic merit.

 

[Narz]

As an Asian-American, I must admit that I laughed pretty hard.

I chuckled myself.

There shouldn't be any preferential treatment based on race, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, gender, etc.

If affirmative action is going to exist, at least base it on income-level rather than race or ethnicity. It is harder for a poor white, black, or Hispanic student to get into a competitive university than it is for a rich white, black, or Hispanic student, pretty much regardless of academic merit.

Yeah, pretty much agree. IMO, AA is divisive as it probably gives recipients a sense that they kind of cheated while giving white people something to complain about (and Asians too though Asians don't complain as much as they just work harder!).

 

[Disgustipated]

There must be a way to make Asians as dumb as the rest of us so they don't perform so well. Maybe feed them more McDonald's?

Seriously, I'm against all Affirmative action no matter the method. We need the best and the brightest, and Asians are our only hope for America to retain any competitive edge. They simply are smarter than the other races without a doubt.

 

[aronnax]

There must be a way to make Asians as dumb as the rest of us so they don't perform so well. Maybe feed them more McDonald's?

Seriously, I'm against all Affirmative action no matter the method. We need the best and the brightest, and Asians are our only hope for America to retain any competitive edge. They simply are smarter than the other races without a doubt.

Asian people aren't 'smarter' than any other race. What they do generally have are incredibly pushy parents and a culture that revolves around being incredibly competitive which is not at all healthy.

And, yeah. This is utter nonsense. My boyfriend was telling me about this the other day and I cannot believe that some universities actually adopted this. It's terrible and the supreme court should get on it and strike it down as unfair.

 

[amadeus]

And, yeah. This is utter nonsense. My boyfriend was telling me about this the other day and I cannot believe that some universities actually adopted this. It's terrible and the supreme court should get on it and strike it down as unfair.

So, no race-based affirmative action whatsoever?

 

[aronnax]

So, no race-based affirmative action whatsoever?

Nope. I don't believe in A-A. I think its disrespectful even it is the positive way. I might hop on board A-A in terms of economic background but not on a racial one.

 

[JollyRoger]

People like Kim Jong Il are dying to get into a good American university.

 

[Elfdemon]

The problem is generalization. There are Asians who are more or less like western students, instead of the stereotype. It would be unfair to them to limit their access to uni simply because the other asians are overly-hardworking, less intelligent, and non-creative.

 

[Takhisis]

Affirmative action is discrimination in favour of people you like. Or feel guilty about. Or both.

 

[innonimatu]

If there is an abundance of Asian students, wouldn't it be economically sound to expand the university to let even more students in?

What, and dilute their precious "elite" status? When all the extra value of those universities is the "networking" they provide, the introduction to the upper class of owners, managers, politicians, and their immediate servants? No way!

The problem with the system is not fixable by any "affirmative action". The problem is not the "race" or background of the members of the elite. The problem is the existence of an "elite" group founded, to a large degree, on the networking around those "elite" universities and dominating a country. And it sure isn't exclusively american either.

The notion of "elite university" should be killed, in every country. If you're going to try to use quotas legislation for that effect (not the best tool, imho) you'd be better served by outlawing "incestuous" professional relations between corporate and political chiefs and any small group of universities.

Universities almost always manage to remain under the radar, but make no mistake, they're very important power centers and accountable to no one outside their little bands.

 

[Skwink]

Asian people aren't 'smarter' than any other race. What they do generally have are incredibly pushy parents and a culture that revolves around being incredibly competitive which is not at all healthy.

This is true I have a friend who's asian and he asks some pretty stupid questions.

 

[downtown]

1) We need to break up the outsized influence standardized test scores have on university admission

2) We should make it harder for rich kids to attend particular universities.

By doing these two things, we may see asian numbers at elite universities go down a little.

 

[madviking]

In the Supreme Court cases Gratz v. Bollinger and Grutter v. Bollinger, the defense pointed out that the difference in "quality" of class upon graduation is not statistically significant. In other words, a class influenced by affirmative action doesn't do any worse than a class where it's mostly the top applicants.

You can also make the argument that affirmative action helps in some subjective ways. Consider a class where an race, Native American for instance, is more prevalent due to affirmative action and a class where Native Americans constitute a much, much smaller percent of the population. In the former, the average non-Native American student attending the university will be exposed to more Native American culture. Moreover, it allows Native American students at the university to stick together. But we'll let that slide for now since everyone does it.

I'm still of the opinion that university classes aren't necessarily about building the best class academically. Certainly academics play a part, but university is also about interacting with people of different backgrounds, races, income levels, geographic origin, etc. So in that case, affirmative action is a positive influence.

To answer the OP's question, I think it should be up to the university to decide. Different universities look for different things when selecting their applicants. If they feel that a glut of Asians/Asian-Americans is detrimental to the university social scene/environment, I think they should be allow to curtail their admittance.

Random factoid: madviking is a poster who graduated from a high school that is over 50% Asian/Asian-American and < 5% black/Hispanic.

 

[aronnax]

2) We should make it harder for rich kids to attend particular universities.

Don't you mean that the it should be easier for poorer kids to attend particular universities?

 

[Joecoolyo]

People like Kim Jong Il are dying to get into a good American university.

Jesus Christ I laughed way to hard at this.

 

[Ayn Rand]

From article in OP

The Center for Equal Opportunity, a think tank opposed to racial preferences, in a 2005 study looked at a male applying to the University of Michigan from in state who had no parental connection to the school. If he had a 1240 SAT score and a 3.2 GPA, he had a 92 percent chance of admission if black and 88 percent if Latino. If white, he had only a 14 percent chance, and if Asian, a 10 percent chance.

Welcome to the new racial paradise, I suppose