Should Tookie Williams get clemency?

That's not the best news article to quote from. Try the one where why Tookie Williams actually has public support for clemency
 
I'm against the death penalty on pragmatic grounds, but I think executing murderers is perfectly fair. Is there an absolute certainty that he did it? I'd think yes, considering he is a co-founder of the Crips.
 
He killed 4 people...I think he's guilty no matter how shoddy the forensics.
 
Here, let me clarify why people are wanting his clemency since MobBoss didn't bother to put up a good link: http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/17/crips.execution.ap/index.html
SAN QUENTIN, California (AP) -- As murderer and Crips co-founder Stanley Tookie Williams tries to stave off execution next month, California prison officials have launched an unusual counterattack against the notion that he has redeemed himself behind bars.

The corrections department earlier this month posted a news release on its Web site about the upcoming execution, detailing Williams' crimes and asserting that he has continued to be a gang leader while on death row at San Quentin Prison.

San Quentin spokesman Vernell Crittendon, speaking on behalf of the department, went further in an interview last week, saying he suspects Williams is orchestrating gangland crimes from his cell.

"I just don't know that his heart is changed," Crittendon said.

Williams, 51, has been behind bars since 1979, when he shot and killed four people during two robberies in Los Angeles. He has been on death row since 1981 and is set to die by injection December 13 in what could be the biggest death-row cause celebre in California since capital punishment was reinstated in 1978.
Celebrity supporters

He and a childhood friend founded the Crips in 1971 in Los Angeles. In the years that followed, the gang did battle with its main rival, the Bloods, for territory and control of the drug trade, leaving hundreds of people dead. Hundreds of offshoots and copycat gangs with thousands of members have emerged across the nation.

Williams' supporters contend he has made amends for his crimes, and they are pleading with Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to spare his life.

In prison, Williams has gained international acclaim for writing children's books about the dangers of gang life. He has been nominated repeatedly for the Nobel Peace Prize. And he has attracted a cadre of celebrity supporters, including Jamie Foxx, who played Williams in a TV movie, "M*A*S*H" actor Mike Farrell and rapper Snoop Dogg, who is scheduled to appear at a rally Saturday outside the prison.

The Los Angeles District Attorney's office is expected to respond to Williams' clemency request this week. But Los Angeles Police Department spokeswoman April Harding said there is no evidence of any illegal gang activity on Williams' part.

"None," she said. "His name doesn't come up."

Williams supporters called the prison system's allegations ridiculous.

"What troubles me about the devaluing of Stan's work and its impact on many low-income youngsters ... is they're saying, `We don't care if Stanley Tookie Williams could help another 5,000, 10,000 or 100,000 kids,' " said Barbara Becnel, Williams' spokeswoman.

In his 2004 memoir, "Blue Rage, Black Redemption," Williams said that his gangster life ended in 1992 and that he knew prison officials "would try at every turn to discredit me."
'Trying to drum up business for death row'

State Sen. Gloria Romero, a Los Angeles Democrat, called the corrections department's allegations an effort to malign Williams and an abuse of power.

"I do see it as a very serious offense and one that is intended to help the governor make up his mind," she said. Schwarzenegger, who has not spared anyone's life on death row, has not said whether he will schedule a clemency hearing.

On its Web site, the corrections department said of Williams: "By 1994, having firmly entrenched himself as the leader of the Crips at San Quentin, he wielded his power as his lieutenants and other minions were dispatched to carry out his objectives." The paragraph was removed a day after it was posted following a call from The Associated Press.

Daniel Vasquez, who was warden at San Quentin from 1983 to 1993 and wrote a letter supporting clemency for the most recent death row inmate executed, said he had never seen such an inflammatory statement in a news release from the prison.

"It's like they're trying to drum up business for death row," he said.

But Crittendon, who has worked at the prison nearly 30 years and regularly deals with Williams, said Williams has refused to formally renounce his gang membership and submit to "debriefing" -- that is, inform on his old friends. Crittendon also cited Williams' willingness to share an exercise yard with Crips and his unusually large prison bank account. And he said Williams' younger son is a trouble-making Crips member in prison for murder.

"A con always will say one thing to you while the whole time he has another agenda," the San Quentin spokesman said. "I'm concerned that possibly this marketing that's going on ... leads the public to hear the words but not to see that sleight of hand."

In August 2004 a committee of prison officials noted Williams' prior gang activity but said it had not seen any recent gang involvement, according to a report cited by Becnel. The committee commended Williams for his positive steps in the past 10 years.

In his book, Williams addressed nearly all of Crittendon's accusations, saying that informing on gang members would "rip my dignity out of my chest," that he gets along with everyone in the yard, and that his son is trying to change his ways.

As for his bank account, Crittendon said that while other high-profile inmates -- such as Scott Peterson, sentenced to death earlier this year for killing his wife and their unborn son -- usually get checks for $10 or $20, Williams receives checks for $500 or $1,000 at a time.

Becnel said people who appreciate Williams' work send him money.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 
So let me get this straight. Tookis go out and kill 4 people, but if he write a kiddies' book in prison, that makes it ok. :shakehead
 
Kill him with fire.

I dont see why he is still drawing breath.
 
I oppose the death penalty to begin with, so I do wish clemency for him.
 
DBear said:
So let me get this straight. Tookis go out and kill 4 people, but if he write a kiddies' book in prison, that makes it ok. :shakehead

The point is, do you really want a criminal justice system that is perhaps killing one of its few successes, a notorious gang leader that has now (supposedly) reformed?
 
blackheart said:
The point is, do you really want a criminal justice system that is perhaps killing one of its few successes, a notorious gang leader that has now (supposedly) reformed?

We release him he'll be back in the game in no less than a week.
 
Shylock said:
We release him he'll be back in the game in no less than a week.

You have absolutely no basis in which to make such a definitive statement.
 
Looking at the past cant lead anywhere... as guilty as he is, killing him wont bring back anyone. If he has redemmed an can do a difference and some kids life right now, i think its enough to leave him in jail....

Anyways, I'm aginast death penalty under any circumstences. Moreover, if you really want to make someone pay for what he did, killing him isn't the best way to achieve it... Now if we only had better prisons...
 
blackheart said:
The point is, do you really want a criminal justice system that is perhaps killing one of its few successes, a notorious gang leader that has now (supposedly) reformed?

The prisons are full of serial killers, murderers who find jesus and get their lives around (supposedly).

Its funny that it takes them actually get caught in order to facilitate this change.

With all these stars speaking out for Williams it really makes me wonder...who, if anyone, is speaking out for the families of the victims that were killed?

The real travisty is the fact that he has been on death row for over 25 years. He should have been executed years ago to be honest.
 
John HSOG said:
You have absolutely no basis in which to make such a definitive statement.

Simple, I know people. If they behave a certain way for so long it becomes imbeded, and no amount of reforming treatment will solve it.
 
The way the prison guards are talking it seems, his reformation is a big shame and he still runs the in jail gangs.

and snop dog is backing him up, he is always signing about the crips. "i dont know what you heard about me, but you cannt get a blodda outa me, im a mother frecking C R I P) so his word dont mean anything
 
He should have been injected ages ago, the US death penalty system is so stupid it takes years just to kill somebody
 
If anything, he should be killed.

Now before somebody comes up to me and says, BUT IF U KILL A KILLER, THEN UR A KILLER LOL!!!1!!!!1, think about the people whose lives came to an abrupt halt for no reason at all.
 
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