Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[BlueGenie]

Not helpful. I've tried reloading at least 4 times, redoing assets a few times, and even went to SVN version to see if the problem had been fixed already and tried it twice on SVN version.
I suppose others might cry wolf first and try solving it themselves only after doing that but I'm not one of those, I'd like to think anyway.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Why the AI builds more knowledge inheritance and only few community disscussions if there is no AI weight on knowledge inheritance? Because of the flavor??? Or maybe because <fVisibilityPriority>1</fVisibilityPriority> is missing on community discussions?

Would be flavor, fVisibilityPriority is about display only.

 

[Toffer90]

Would be flavor, fVisibilityPriority is about display only.

@Pit: The culture and science commerce on knowledge inheritance is the main reason why AI builds it more than community discussion which until very recently in the AI's eyes did nothing (AiWeight gives it an artificial value of purpose).
The flavor makes leaders who has the same flavor types defined in their xml choose knowledge inheritance over an equally valuable building that does not have the flavor types of that leader.

 

[Pit2015]

@Pit: The culture and science commerce on knowledge inheritance is the main reason why AI builds it more than community discussion which until very recently in the AI's eyes did nothing (AiWeight gives it an artificial value of purpose).
The flavor makes leaders who has the same flavor types defined in their xml choose knowledge inheritance over an equally valuable building that does not have the flavor types of that leader.

Ok, then i copy the flavor stuff from knowledge inh. to commnunity disscussion, then the AI should build that like all AI civs build knowledge inh, if it works you should do the same for the mod, then the AI is able to build myths faster at gamestart because they get community discussions early and then they can keep up with research and dont fall back alot because they build knowledge inh. to late and it takes them longer to build knowledge inh.

I changed Community Discussions to:

<!-- Special properties -->
<iAsset>1</iAsset>
<Flavors>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_SCIENCE</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>20</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_CULTURE</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
</Flavors>
<iConquestProb>15</iConquestProb>
<iHurryCostModifier>100</iHurryCostModifier>
<iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
<!-- Properties diffusion -->

Also i increased the AIweight from 20 to 80.

 

[Toffer90]

Spoiler :

Ok, then i copy the flavor stuff from knowledge inh. to commnunity disscussion, then the AI should build that like all AI civs build knowledge inh, if it works you should do the same for the mod, then the AI is able to build myths faster at gamestart because they get community discussions early and then they can keep up with research and dont fall back alot because they build knowledge inh. to late and it takes them longer to build knowledge inh.

I changed Community Discussions to:

<!-- Special properties -->
<iAsset>1</iAsset>
<Flavors>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_SCIENCE</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>20</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_CULTURE</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
<Flavor>
<FlavorType>FLAVOR_GROWTH</FlavorType>
<iFlavor>10</iFlavor>
</Flavor>
</Flavors>
<iConquestProb>15</iConquestProb>
<iHurryCostModifier>100</iHurryCostModifier>
<iAdvancedStartCost>-1</iAdvancedStartCost>
<!-- Properties diffusion -->

Also i increased the AIweight from 20 to 80.

with an AiWeight of 80 there is really no need to add flavors as every civ will probably stop building wonders that have 1 turn to finish to build the community discussion the moment it becomes available. ^^

@DH: At the moment some myths require "Community Discussion" (available at "Language") while other myths require "Story Teller Hut" OR "Knowledge Inheritance" OR "Library", while some only requires palace and oral tradition.
Should any myths be available before "Oral Tradition" as in the case of those that require only "Community Discussion"?
I guess I'm asking; how do you want it to be in the end? I'm somewhat confused as this structure keeps changing is all (yes, I know I've influenced some of the changes).

If the autobuild stemming from community discussion (BUILDING_ANIMAL_MYTH_REQUIRE) was unlocked at oral tradition, then I guess it would be a bit more streamlined.

EDIT: Also curious if you want myths to require palace or not, as now some do while others don't.

 

[JosEPh_II]

with an AiWeight of 80 there is really no need to add flavors as every civ will probably stop building wonders that have 1 turn to finish to build the community discussion the moment it becomes available. ^^

@DH: At the moment some myths require "Community Discussion" (available at "Language") while other myths require "Story Teller Hut" OR "Knowledge Inheritance" OR "Library", while some only requires palace and oral tradition.
Should any myths be available before "Oral Tradition" as in the case of those that require only "Community Discussion"?
I guess I'm asking; how do you want it to be in the end? I'm somewhat confused as this structure keeps changing is all (yes, I know I've influenced some of the changes).

If the autobuild stemming from community discussion (BUILDING_ANIMAL_MYTH_REQUIRE) was unlocked at oral tradition, then I guess it would be a bit more streamlined.

To add to this, the starting Education Property for all "Players" (AI and human) is Unaware. Because of the penalties of this initial setting for the Education property it should have a PrereqTech of Oral Tradition. This small change would make the longer game speeds more viable for the AI. And address Pit's concerns without having to add AIWeights and Flavors to individual buildings.

JosEPh

 

[Toffer90]

Spoiler :

To add to this, the starting Education Property for all "Players" (AI and human) is Unaware. Because of the penalties of this initial setting for the Education property it should have a PrereqTech of Oral Tradition. This small change would make the longer game speeds more viable for the AI. And address Pit's concerns without having to add AIWeights and Flavors to individual buildings.

JosEPh

Agreed.

 

[Thunderbrd]

To add to this, the starting Education Property for all "Players" (AI and human) is Unaware. Because of the penalties of this initial setting for the Education property it should have a PrereqTech of Oral Tradition. This small change would make the longer game speeds more viable for the AI. And address Pit's concerns without having to add AIWeights and Flavors to individual buildings.

JosEPh

Might be a good change but then it would mean you could avoid going for oral tradition for a long time and ignore the immediate education need. Education actually starts at 0... if you have a difficulty setting of Noble or less I think it is, you should be able to be gaining a small amount of education out of the gate rather than losing any. Since the AI is at Noble, it should be in the positive right away. The palace provides enough to do one better than the 1 pop is costing iirc.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Might be a good change but then it would mean you could avoid going for oral tradition for a long time and ignore the immediate education need. Education actually starts at 0... if you have a difficulty setting of Noble or less I think it is, you should be able to be gaining a small amount of education out of the gate rather than losing any. Since the AI is at Noble, it should be in the positive right away. The palace provides enough to do one better than the 1 pop is costing iirc.

Languages perhaps would be a better PrereqTech start. And according to Toffer, on Noble the AI starts with a -1 per pop. And it is the AI that is struggling with early Education values. So No the AI does Not get to positive values quickly unless the game is on a fast gamespeed. Marathon and above they have added turns that keep them negative longer.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

He's right but the palace gives +1 or two so until they get another population they're good with or without community discussions.

 

[JosEPh_II]

He's right but the palace gives +1 or two so until they get another population they're good with or without community discussions.

Not talking about Community Discussions onward but the period before you can get it. And No the Palace does not give enough + to overcome the - during this time frame. And the problem is More pronounced on the Longer game speeds. Plus everyone starts with the Education Level of Unaware that has -5 values for iYieldModifiers and iCommerceModifiers.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

How is that? -1 education from a population, +2 from the palace. Where else are they getting - education changes from? They shouldn't be losing education until pop 3! Assuming no other buildings are built.

Also assuming I'm right about the #s. But I recall setting it up that at Noble you weren't challenged at all.

Plus, all start at education 0 which is no level at all.

Spose things couldve been changed somewhere...

On harder difficulty settings, yes, the population costs much more so you'll be plummeting and heading immediately for community discussions is a quick way to help fix or mitigate the loss enough to buy you time to get to a bigger fix.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Perhaps you forgotten the diffusion side of the Property?

As for not losing education until Pop 3, that is just not how it's working at all.

Plus, all start at education 0 which is no level at all.

Again Nope. Maybe turn 0, but on turn 1 it is Unaware. Hence my proposal to put a Preregtech on it

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Perhaps you forgotten the diffusion side of the Property?

As for not losing education until Pop 3, that is just not how it's working at all.


Again Nope. Maybe turn 0, but on turn 1 it is Unaware. Hence my proposal to put a Preregtech on it

JosEPh

Find all the modifiers that are giving a total negative to the city if you would please. Diffusion is like 4%... shouldn't even have an effect until the property is getting more than a few pts away from 0 unless 0 isn't what it's trying to decay to... Is there a setting that determines the decay point axis that could be making it immediately decay towards it when the property is at 0?

Diffusion seems silly for education and perhaps should be removed entirely from that property if it has any.

Anyhow, we need to identify WHY it's going negative after the first round of the city's life before we start looking at solutions. On Noble, iirc, that shouldn't be happening. So if it is then we need to know why.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The CTD on turn update raises its head again in my current game. The attached save game _always_ crashes, without error msg or minidump. Following your advice, I changed the thread count in the New Dawn-global defines xml to 1. This helped in the previous game, but the current game seems doomed. I also tried changing it back, it makes no difference. I am on the latest SVN. Game has a giant map, epic speed, no revolutions, and no barbarian civs.

Update: tried everything, from going back to earlier savegames to changing building orders, can't get beyond the turn where it crashes.

=============

I also had another bug/strange issue with this game; there was a turn update that didn't end; I thought at first it was just an epic AI battle somewhere, but after 90 minutes, the update still didn't end. However, different from the last time this happened (fixed), the program didn't freeze, the clock didn't stop, the process was listed as "running" and the mouse pointer remained responsive ingame, so that I could open the game menu. Only the update would not stop. I then terminated the game and reloaded from autosave (I have set to save every turn), after which everything was fine. Problem resolved, yet very weird.

Having resolved the crash reported a few posts before this one, I ran this and it looks to be suffering from the previously noted problem with multi-threading that Alberts is working on. If it has further trouble with multi-threading off after my next commit, let me know. Alberts2 I'm sure will soon have a fix for that issue as well.

 

[Thunderbrd]

CTD latest SVN

Unfortunately, a mini can't help at the moment BUT the crash Calvitix reported soon after this one looks to be potentially common and has been easily resolved so this may have been that.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Find all the modifiers that are giving a total negative to the city if you would please. Diffusion is like 4%... shouldn't even have an effect until the property is getting more than a few pts away from 0 unless 0 isn't what it's trying to decay to... Is there a setting that determines the decay point axis that could be making it immediately decay towards it when the property is at 0?

Diffusion seems silly for education and perhaps should be removed entirely from that property if it has any.

Anyhow, we need to identify WHY it's going negative after the first round of the city's life before we start looking at solutions. On Noble, iirc, that shouldn't be happening. So if it is then we need to know why.

While Unaware's trigger is -10 and Intuitive's is +10 something is causing the value to go more than -10 in the 1st few turn of a game. One would think a -10 to +10 cushion would give some time before Either Unaware or Intuitive kicks in. Now that I have a better idea of what to watch maybe it can be rooted out.

Otherwise I think for Unaware a PrereqTech of GRAIN_GATHERING or NOMADIC_LIFESTYLE may be needed.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

While Unaware's trigger is -10 and Intuitive's is +10 something is causing the value to go more than -10 in the 1st few turn of a game. One would think a -10 to +10 cushion would give some time before Either Unaware or Intuitive kicks in. Now that I have a better idea of what to watch maybe it can be rooted out.

Otherwise I think for Unaware a PrereqTech of GRAIN_GATHERING or NOMADIC_LIFESTYLE may be needed.

JosEPh

Well... there aren't many potential ways it could be going negative so quickly so we just need to find the xml that's causing it. Not only should a player on Noble not be losing education at all out of the gate but that it's losing that MUCH education means it would have to be a pretty dramatic value somewhere causing this.

I also suspect its something that's been changed since the initial setup because I recall testing back then and having it all work exactly as intended.

It would either be from propertycontrol modifiers somewhere (could something have been added to a starting civic?) OR it could simply be a setting on the property itself that may be causing the 0 point of the decay to be much much much lower than 0. If it's trying to 'decay' down to -1000 or so, this could begin to make sense.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Endless wait on end of turn.

Cheers

Apparently something I worked on in the meantime has resolved the problem... I'm not that surprised as I found a few issues and resolved them along the way to where I'm at now.

This should be resolved by the next SVN commit. And since this was the last report to check on before I'm cleared to launch that commit, it shouldn't be long now.

 

[strategyonly]

CTD, not the latest SVN that you just put there NOW, but the one before that . .

EDIT: Also a question for ya, recently the "recalculation" is taking between 8-10 minutes EACH and everytime you make a change to the SVN, how come it is taking that long now, never used to? I am not that concerned about it, because its at the begging of the game, but GEEZ . .