Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[Toffer90]

Those in the pic aren't on idle. Idle always shows itself as a build selected. Those, if visibility is actually there, are simply cities that have no build selected at all.

OK, But why can the player choose to build idle? Why would the player ever want to build it?

		<ProcessInfo>
			<Type>PROCESS_IDLE</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_IDLE</Description>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_IDLE_STRATEGY</Strategy>
			<TechPrereq>NONE</TechPrereq>
			<ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
				<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
				<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
				<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
			</ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
			<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/ProcessIdle.dds</Button>
		</ProcessInfo>

 

[Thunderbrd]

file attached

ggm

I was hoping to address the movement problems tonight but the size of this game is massive and looks like it might take an hour or two to find the problem and I'm about out of that. So If I get to neither of them this evening I just want folks to know I'm trying here.

This game has a few major AI errors to evaluate in it as well which I'll take a deeper look at over the weekend.

EDIT: Ok, so I was able to clear a round without suffering a crash so perhaps a minidump may be helpful. Either that or you're simply suffering from a MAF from system requirements not being strong enough to handle such a developed game. Pretty impressive to be 10k points ahead of the next closest AI. Though on just about any setting it goes to show the AI has its issues.

 

[Thunderbrd]

OK, But why can the player choose to build idle? Why would the player ever want to build it?

		<ProcessInfo>
			<Type>PROCESS_IDLE</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_IDLE</Description>
			<Strategy>TXT_KEY_PROCESS_IDLE_STRATEGY</Strategy>
			<TechPrereq>NONE</TechPrereq>
			<ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
				<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
				<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
				<iProductionToCommerceModifier>0</iProductionToCommerceModifier>
			</ProductionToCommerceModifiers>
			<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Process/ProcessIdle.dds</Button>
		</ProcessInfo>

Ah... now THAT is a mod history trivia question indeed. There was a time before we had all the different types of commerce building settings and what we would often find is that before the standard (overly strong) commerce building settings were accessed by tech progress, you'd commonly hit a wall where for long periods of the game the only thing you could do was build units that would drain you of your economic health. Since sacrificing a unit had no benefit at the time it was really just an annoyance to build them and destroy them. Thus Idle was introduced and although there probably is never a good reason now to set the city to idle now, it's retained for a 'just in case' it can be helpful kind of scenario.

We're talking pre-SVN versions here, like v10 and before.

 

[Toffer90]

Ah... now THAT is a mod history trivia question indeed. There was a time before we had all the different types of commerce building settings and what we would often find is that before the standard (overly strong) commerce building settings were accessed by tech progress, you'd commonly hit a wall where for long periods of the game the only thing you could do was build units that would drain you of your economic health. Since sacrificing a unit had no benefit at the time it was really just an annoyance to build them and destroy them. Thus Idle was introduced and although there probably is never a good reason now to set the city to idle now, it's retained for a 'just in case' it can be helpful kind of scenario.

We're talking pre-SVN versions here, like v10 and before.

Figured it was something like that, thanks for explaining.

 

[Harrier]

Ah... now THAT is a mod history trivia question indeed.
We're talking pre-SVN versions here, like v10 and before.

Why not just delete Idle. Then decide what to revert it to, if available - (Commerce, Science, Culture.).

A scenario builder can always add it back. They only have to look at existing scenario's.

How many of them are there by the way?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why not just delete Idle. Then decide what to revert it to, if available - (Commerce, Science, Culture.).

A scenario builder can always add it back. They only have to look at existing scenario's.

How many of them are there by the way?

It's not causing any trouble. Why delete it?

 

[Toffer90]

Are you SURE you can see into the build settings on all those cities that don't have a selection?

This is how it looks like if one can't see what the AI are building:

Notice there is no rounded icon edge on the right side.
So what pit showed in the picture seems pretty convincing that there is a problem here.


EDIT@Pit: We will still need a savegame from you on this.

 

[Harrier]

It's not causing any trouble. Why delete it?

Player confusion, less difficulty to a new modder, maybe a small reduction in memory, less for the AI to process? I do not know, but they all add up. Just a suggestion.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is that fix already in the SVN? I ask because I still see the behaviour:
I attack with grouped units a single unit. I win. All of the units have movement points left but the stack gets out of focus and will not be active anymore for this turn (unless I click on it).

ahaha see even after you think you made the correct item, then you changed something and POOF, error, lol, used to happen to me alot, but i learned, at least a little bit. lol. . .

also, TB

movements are not being processed correctly, i still have 1 movement on the Master Hunter, but it ended and went to another unit, when it should have stayed on the Master Hunter for that NEXT move, or i changed units ON my own . .

I may need saves on these. I'm unable to duplicate the reported effects on my own here. That said, I'm not testing that on vanilla stack attack option. If you're playing with that on there could be more cause there unexplored.

 

[Toffer90]

I have the movement problem too (on all units, even those with 1 movement are getting the white hourglass status after combat instead of red/yellow button as they used to) after every single combat, and I'm not using any of the stack attack options.

Edit: lol I tried turning on stack attack (BUG) and that fixed the unit loosing focus after battle, but it also introduced a different bug: it caused units not to move to the plot they attacked if the defender withdraws.

 

[climat]

I got this with the start. I guess that it is one of the WorldBuilder-related python errors?

In [B]PythonErr.log[/B]

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "CvWBInterface", line 230, in writeDesc

  File "CvWBDesc", line 1533, in write

  File "CvWBDesc", line 470, in write

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function writeDesc failed, module CvWBInterface

 

[climat]

@Toffer
It seems there is some problem in Mangrove graphics. (see red marks in the attached image)
Could you check that this also happens to you?

 

[Toffer90]

@Toffer
It seems there is some problem in Mangrove graphics. (see red marks in the attached image)
Could you check that this also happens to you?

Yeah, this blue undergrowth or shadow thing started happening after I optimized the textures of trees; strange thing is that it shifts between being blue and black now and then. I suspect something is odd in the mangroove model, and have plans to clean that up.
Though having water under the mangroove makes sense as mangrooves are trees that grows in saltwater. But right now it doesn't look too good (especially on hills and peaks where mangrooves should never really be in the first place) so as I said, I will see if I can improve it sometime.

 

[Snofru1]

I definitely can confirm Toffer90 on the stack attack issue: Turning on stack attack in BUG and the units don´t stop after the fight, turning it off and they stop (didn´t see a fight with defender withdraw so far, so can´t confirm this one).

Probably no need to give you a saved game on this (the space map is really huge and no fun to load). BTW I don´t use Thunderbrd´s new stack attack (at least if that´s a different setting from the one in BUG options), probably wasn´t available as an option when I started this game quite a while ago.

I also had a pretty serious problem with stack attack turned on, unfortunately not reproducible (was gone after reloading the save): After an attack my stack was still active but couldn´t move anymore. I also couldn´t activate any other unit or enter any city screen. All the options for the current stack and all game options could still be used. But even fortifying the units or splitting the stack didn´t give me a chance to activate any other unit. Saving and reloading did help.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The stack attack that comes with Civ IV is available in the game options (Ctrl-O)

 

[Snofru1]

The stack attack that comes with Civ IV is available in the game options (Ctrl-O)

Thanks a lot! So we have 2 different stack attack buttons: One in game options, one in BUG options (RevDCM).

That´s what I see (bad: unit is not active after attack; good: unit is active after attack):

Both buttons turned off: bad
Both turned on: good
Only BUG turned on: good
Only Options turned on: bad

So only the BUG button seems to have an effect.

 

[Davidr]

Just ran an SVN update to version 8947 on my c2c working copy and received a red warning that "C2C \Assets \CivgamecoreDll.dll was in a conflicted state and that the file had been skipped.

Is this me or an error within the SVN update process.

DavidR

 

[Pit2015]

This is how it looks like if one can't see what the AI are building:

Notice there is no rounded icon edge on the right side.
So what pit showed in the picture seems pretty convincing that there is a problem here.


EDIT@Pit: We will still need a savegame from you on this.

"Are you SURE you can see into the build settings on all those cities that don't have a selection? If that's it then the problem is much deeper than that because, as you suggested, wealth/research/culture IS the default if there's nothing else to do. However, there are numerous situations where as a player I've found my cities building nothing and wondered how they ended up in that position. If the AI is suffering from this kind of thing then at least we need to program in a catch to determine this every round and ensure SOMETHING is set. Problem is, I'm not sure what's causing it or really where to setup such a check... particularly without causing lots of turn time delays. I can look into it but PLEASE, given the complexity of the problem, I NEED you to absolutely rock solidly confirm that this problem really is happening and provide a test save that shows it."

Yes looks like i can be sure, all other special agents see the production of the other city and if i give oral tradition to the AI then next turn they build directly knowledge inhertiance its visible then directly, so must be idle for sure. Check it and fix it here is the save where i made all civs visible with special agents...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just ran an SVN update to version 8947 on my c2c working copy and received a red warning that "C2C \Assets \CivgamecoreDll.dll was in a conflicted state and that the file had been skipped.

Is this me or an error within the SVN update process.

DavidR

I just updated mine without a problem. Try deleting all variations on CivgamecoreDll in your assets folder and doing the update again.

 

[olduser]

"Are you SURE you can see into the build settings on all those cities that don't have a selection? If that's it then the problem is much deeper than that because, as you suggested, wealth/research/culture IS the default if there's nothing else to do. However, there are numerous situations where as a player I've found my cities building nothing and wondered how they ended up in that position. If the AI is suffering from this kind of thing then at least we need to program in a catch to determine this every round and ensure SOMETHING is set. Problem is, I'm not sure what's causing it or really where to setup such a check... particularly without causing lots of turn time delays. I can look into it but PLEASE, given the complexity of the problem, I NEED you to absolutely rock solidly confirm that this problem really is happening and provide a test save that shows it."

Yes looks like i can be sure, all other special agents see the production of the other city and if i give oral tradition to the AI then next turn they build directly knowledge inhertiance its visible then directly, so must be idle for sure. Check it and fix it here is the save where i made all civs visible with special agents...

You should use the BBAI log too see what the AI does everything else is just quessing.