Single Player bugs and crashes v36 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of October 2015

[JosEPh_II]

I will adapt the scenario no problem but same problem still there the AI sucks a bit, if the AI can expand from start then the AI will work better. So any other idears to fix the lame

Pit as long as your scenario with 44 AI and Eternity Gamespeed is your base you will have expansion problems. Your refusal to change that is a foundation problem that will not go away. At the very least reduce your Starting AI by 10 or more and reduce game speed to Eon or Snail. You will have a better functioning Scenario. Or you can be set how you are and suffer from your own decision making. The choice is always yours.

And this thread is for bugs/crashes. Please, stop plugging your Scenario here. And this is also not the thread for asking for Mod changes, that's the Discussion thread.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

With your changes loading times are back to normal !

But I still can´t get any buildings from Subdued Animals, Great Prophets and so on...

Yeah faster turn times also, at least if under 200 turns they are back to 3-5 sec rather than 10-15, now saying that

I just built 4 Atlatl, but cant get the SM to merge them?? see pic 2 for the options i have checked??

We won't be doing that.

Ok.

It's been a while since I worked on SM guys and I'm tampering with things a little hastily here where I've forgotten some of the ground rules of setup. I'll get in and sort it out though.

EDIT: I think I have this sorted out now. Sorry for the problems.

EDIT2: Fix on the SVN. I saw the issue last night and just thought it through incorrectly. Should be right now (though units in the game currently may have some issues still - then again this may fix existing units since it's pulling from changes in root unit type info data.)

 

[Pit2015]

Pit as long as your scenario with 44 AI and Eternity Gamespeed is your base you will have expansion problems. Your refusal to change that is a foundation problem that will not go away. At the very least reduce your Starting AI by 10 or more and reduce game speed to Eon or Snail. You will have a better functioning Scenario. Or you can be set how you are and suffer from your own decision making. The choice is always yours.

And this thread is for bugs/crashes. Please, stop plugging your Scenario here. And this is also not the thread for asking for Mod changes, that's the Discussion thread.

JosEPh

The AI bug or the lameness of the AI has to do with every game not only with my scenario. So you will tell me that the AI will work better on a other game speed? I think it will not build citys faster than i, should be the same problem in every game. They will start expanding as they reach tribalismus, not earlyer, because i hunt alot of animals i will generate 3 times more research and reach tribalismus 2-3 times faster then the AI. Also how many civs in the scenario will not matter and affect how the AI plays or? So i can change to a standard game speed and try it, but i think the same problem will be there, to what game speed should i change best? What game speed works best with C2C currently?

As you see at last you change all crime stuff as i told you before because you understand now the problems, so tell me now are you sure that the AI will expand faster and play better on a faster game speed? Otherwise i will go better to change it the way as told, to let all civs start with tribalismus, so they can expand early... quit a lot of work to change this in scenario, so you realy think a faster gamespeed will make the AI better?

 

[strategyonly]

Dont know for sure if this is re-solved now or not, but I now cant sacrifice captives for free production value??

pic 1: showing more than 3 turns,
pic 2: have lots of captives but cant use production free?

EDIT: Seems to be re-solved in the new SVN, thx

 

[olduser]

The AI bug or the lameness of the AI has to do with every game not only with my scenario. So you will tell me that the AI will work better on a other game speed? I think it will not build citys faster than i, should be the same problem in every game. They will start expanding as they reach tribalismus, not earlyer, because i hunt alot of animals i will generate 3 times more research and reach tribalismus 2-3 times faster then the AI. Also how many civs in the scenario will not matter and affect how the AI plays or? So i can change to a standard game speed and try it, but i think the same problem will be there, to what game speed should i change best? What game speed works best with C2C currently?

As you see at last you change all crime stuff as i told you before because you understand now the problems, so tell me now are you sure that the AI will expand faster and play better on a faster game speed? Otherwise i will go better to change it the way as told, to let all civs start with tribalismus, so they can expand early... quit a lot of work to change this in scenario, so you realy think a faster gamespeed will make the AI better?

Try it with Snail and report back if that changes anything. If you are doing a much better job as the AI it would be interesting what exactly you do differently.

 

[dummy1929]

This one took a LOT of effort to resolve to some semblance of a satisfactory situation. I don't think it was an infinite loop but I think it was that the turn would've taken a very very very long time to resolve and may be causing a timeout somewhere in the operating system. Still takes a LONG time but not nearly as long. I advise turning on the ability to at least watch the battle as you wait. And give it some minutes to process when it gets to thinking through the odds of the battle being victorious.

I may well have fixed a lot here thanks to this, including a bug that may have kept a lot of rational attacks on cities from taking place due to the need to simply tear through a sufficient amount of the stack to get it done.

The battle, by the way, is absolutely EPIC! I would almost suggest posting this save in a hall of fame somewhere so that anyone can open it up and watch how this plays out. Over 600 units attacking over 100 units in the city. I won't tell you how it pans out but it's a pretty close call and a few decisions made before hitting end-turn would mean the random seed would be altered and that could change the whole outcome.

Amazing. What's more amazing is that the system can now get through the turn and hasn't sacrificed all that much in numeric evaluatory accuracy to do so. There's a few shortcuts like this but for the most part, a few huge volumes of redundant heavy processing checks were able to be eliminated and that did the trick.

There may well have been an infinite loop in there but it would be impossible to say since one loop alone would take hours to get through on the debug dll.

This turn takes about an hour to process on a normal dll as it is but I think it's worth the wait considering the epic clash it represents and that's the reason for the great turn time. It may process quicker if you don't watch the fight - but not nearly as entertaining

Update the SVN and do a recalc first then you are good to go.

Thanks for the challenge!

Super awesome!! Back from the holidays, finally got to play this - truly a magnificent battle! I imagine the hordes of Australians braking against my city's stout Egyptian defenders ... Thank you for making it happen!!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Super awesome!! Back from the holidays, finally got to play this - truly a magnificent battle! I imagine the hordes of Australians braking against my city's stout Egyptian defenders ... Thank you for making it happen!!

Looks like they may have the city the next round without some serious reinforcements coming in... though it looks like those are on the way. Pretty epic battle though. One of the best I've seen.

 

[olduser]

8904

• ...
• Fixes xml in Concrete Tech. (Had known about this for a few days now Toffer... just had to find the time to get to it. @DH: You should just check out the difference on this file but it was a pretty innocent mistake. When checking the schema on multiple types tags, make sure to check to ensure that there's not more to nested tags.)
• ...

Since that xml was fixed the game get's stuck sometimes or it just stops doing anything without crashing. If i remove the PrereqBuildingClasses tag from the TECH_WATERPROOF_CEMENT those problems go away. Any one else having those problems?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Since that xml was fixed the game get's stuck sometimes or it just stops doing anything without crashing. If i remove the PrereqBuildingClasses tag from the TECH_WATERPROOF_CEMENT those problems go away. Any one else having those problems?

I haven't.

Having that tag there is the point of that tech and I have shown that the tech is available if you have the building and not available if you don't. Which is what I want.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Since that xml was fixed the game get's stuck sometimes or it just stops doing anything without crashing. If i remove the PrereqBuildingClasses tag from the TECH_WATERPROOF_CEMENT those problems go away. Any one else having those problems?

hmm... there's apparently a problem there, perhaps in the AI evaluating of the tech seeing it as being available when its not leading to a loop where it keeps evaluating to select that tech then going to select it and being unable to so restarting the whole search for a best tech over again.

With a save that's having this problem I may be able to lock onto the issue and resolve it.

 

[Pit2015]

Try it with Snail and report back if that changes anything. If you are doing a much better job as the AI it would be interesting what exactly you do differently.

Its a MOD bug/problem. What i do differently is i know how to hunt and return animals correctly and fast, the AI sucks at this now, the AI is to slow and dont returns animals effectiv to its city and building no myths or very slow, so no research bonus for them, so i can generate 3 times more reasearch than the AI can, that leads to the fall back of the AI. Will be a major problem for all game speeds now i think.

So i think changing the game speed will not help mutch here, ok the AI will get some techs a bit faster and maybe expand faster because they reach tribalismus a bit faster, but i will still 3 times faster than the AI, will maybe have a small effect. But you should consider to make the AI better at returning the animals and get more myths, or make the tribalismus settler unit available from start. Or think about a way that the AI dont needs to return the animals to the city to build the myths, so like if the AI subdue a animal that they can build directly the myth without have to returning the animal to the city. Maybe this bug/problem is because you changed the animal system so all have to return the animals back to a city, remember as it was before, the subdued animal spawned in the nearest city of the hunting unit, so the AI was able to build a myth and get the research bonus directly.

So maybe change the animal system back so the animals spawn in nearest city if subdued and the AI should be able to build more myths. Also that will be better for civs in europe and islands when they are limited or have blocked movement from other civs to return there animals to there citys. Otherwise make something the AI can use subdued animals directly for building a myth without needing to return the animal. Like if you capture a animal and you can make a myth with directly, then select the city where the myth should be created. Best will be maybe to change the animal system back so subdued animals will spawn in the nearest city again, that will make the AI work better again. Captured slaves and units still needed to be returned to citys so its ok.

So i think this AI bug/problem is in the animal system. Has nothing to do with game speed. Game works good on eternity speed now. (Game is better on eternity speed because you dont get techs to fast and they realy worth something and you dont get a new unit every 5 turns, you need to use what you have)

 

[Arakhor]

Maybe it works better for you because you're a skilled player, but if the AI is so bad, what makes you so sure that the game-speed isn't affecting their decisions?

 

[Toffer90]

Spoiler :

Its a MOD bug/problem. What i do differently is i know how to hunt and return animals correctly and fast, the AI sucks at this now, the AI is to slow and dont returns animals effectiv to its city and building no myths or very slow, so no research bonus for them, so i can generate 3 times more reasearch than the AI can, that leads to the fall back of the AI. Will be a major problem for all game speeds now i think.

So i think changing the game speed will not help mutch here, ok the AI will get some techs a bit faster and maybe expand faster because they reach tribalismus a bit faster, but i will still 3 times faster than the AI, will maybe have a small effect. But you should consider to make the AI better at returning the animals and get more myths, or make the tribalismus settler unit available from start. Or think about a way that the AI dont needs to return the animals to the city to build the myths, so like if the AI subdue a animal that they can build directly the myth without have to returning the animal to the city. Maybe this bug/problem is because you changed the animal system so all have to return the animals back to a city, remember as it was before, the subdued animal spawned in the nearest city of the hunting unit, so the AI was able to build a myth and get the research bonus directly.

So maybe change the animal system back so the animals spawn in nearest city if subdued and the AI should be able to build more myths. Also that will be better for civs in europe and islands when they are limited or have blocked movement from other civs to return there animals to there citys. Otherwise make something the AI can use subdued animals directly for building a myth without needing to return the animal. Like if you capture a animal and you can make a myth with directly, then select the city where the myth should be created. Best will be maybe to change the animal system back so subdued animals will spawn in the nearest city again, that will make the AI work better again. Captured slaves and units still needed to be returned to citys so its ok.

So i think this AI bug/problem is in the animal system. Has nothing to do with game speed. Game works good on eternity speed now. (Game is better on eternity speed because you dont get techs to fast and they realy worth something and you dont get a new unit every 5 turns, you need to use what you have)

First off, you are pointing at problems we are well aware of, secondly there is a game option that teleports animals to nearest city even before sedentary lifestyle (use it).

 

[Pit2015]

Maybe it works better for you because you're a skilled player, but if the AI is so bad, what makes you so sure that the game-speed isn't affecting their decisions?

Worked better before the animal system was changed to return animals, so this also will fix the shaka civ bug, remember shaka has alot of animals and then he goes bankrupt, if the animals are returned automaticaly and spwan in city again then shaka will not have this bug anymore i think. Also as i told, game speed will not affect this mutch, AI still sucks at returning and using animals in every game speed if they need to return the animals. Resulting in a research fall back for the AI civs...

First off, you are pointing at problems we are well aware of, secondly there is a game option that teleports animals to nearest city even before sedentary lifestyle (use it).

Toffer? Will the AI use this option or works it only for the player? Where is this option? In game options or just a button in the mod? That may fix alot...

 

[Toffer90]

Toffer? Will the AI use this option or works it only for the player? Where is this option? In game options or just a button in the mod? That may fix alot...

It's a game-option chosen at custom game creation, and it works for the AI too.

 

[Pit2015]

It's a game-option chosen at custom game creation, and it works for the AI too.

Ok i look for it, hopefully i can activate it in the worldbuilder, name of the option?

Edit: Ok found it, Teleport Hunting Awards, cool if that works this will fix alot.

Also i see the option "Guilds" back! Can i select it for medival guilds or still it not work currently?

 

[strategyonly]

Ok i look for it, hopefully i can activate it in the worldbuilder, name of the option?

Edit: Ok found it, Teleport Hunting Awards, cool if that works this will fix alot.

Also i see the option "Guilds" back! Can i select it for medival guilds or still it not work currently?

No dont use the options that are not in the ORIGINAL options, when you start a game, like Guild, it is completely broken. As far as i know.

 

[Pit2015]

No dont use the options that are not in the ORIGINAL options, when you start a game, like Guild, it is completely broken. As far as i know.

Ok, C2C - Ultimate Earth Map V2.4 released now, look into the forum thread plz and let me know if there still a game option problem or good to go with these options if you got some time on hand. All game options displayed in first posting. Thanx.

 

[olduser]

hmm... there's apparently a problem there, perhaps in the AI evaluating of the tech seeing it as being available when its not leading to a loop where it keeps evaluating to select that tech then going to select it and being unable to so restarting the whole search for a best tech over again.

With a save that's having this problem I may be able to lock onto the issue and resolve it.

It was a odd coincidence that removing that tag fixed that problem a few times. After more tests i found what is causing the delays, it's something in the audio engine mss32.dll. I thought it was a threading problem on our side but it's the mss32.dll waiting on something. I have no idea why it is happening.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It was a odd coincidence that removing that tag fixed that problem a few times. After more tests i found what is causing the delays, it's something in the audio engine mss32.dll. I thought it was a threading problem on our side but it's the mss32.dll waiting on something. I have no idea why it is happening.

Good to know at least.