SMW4: Preview Thread

[Terrance888]

I agree with both erez87 and Azale.

I want to perfect a n upkeep system, some minor rule changes, and ultimately work on a decent tech, and UU system. So any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.

I don't know the intent of the ruleset, but it does seem to focus a lot on war and fighting at this moment.

For Tech, if you wish to avoid a tech tree, have research projects that have variable funding. I.E. every X amount of spending gives a chance of success, with the final price you give "going all out" with perfect chance of success or failure (i.e. dead line) on a certain project. So Monoplanes would be 0/100, with each EP representing 1% chance of success. Paying all 100 exhausts the study and the researchers might say "we look on all sides of this issue from the X perspective and it is impossible". Of course, a player can then attempt again from another perspective. They might also say "we've corrected all the problems with the design and it is now ready to be fielded"

 

[Grandkhan]

The thing about tech trees is that you can either make it realistic or player friendly.

The problem with systems like Terrences or the old tech system used in Capto Iugulum is that they're still not very realistic or organic. In the real world, research (even military) isn't really done by governments, its done by universities or businesses for peaceful or scientific applications and then military engineers work out how to weaponise it. Tanks, for example, were just using the technologies designed for automobiles and other things of a civilian variety - there was no new research into tanks. ICBMs were slightly similar, seeing as they came out of the rocket programs. Off the top of my head, the only scientific research I can think of that was conducted specifically for the military was stealth aircraft

The system I was going to use in my NES (it never really came to pass) was that it was really, really hidden or random. People got technologies by investing into projects that may or may not have military outcomes - for example, ICBMs were discovered by the Japanese while working on a space program. Initially, nobody knew that was how they got them - Japan just invested in constructing a space program, and X EP into the project they got ICBMs.

Otherwise, if I wanted a technology to come into play in the NES (eg. attack helicopters), I'd roll a dice to see who got first crack at it, and then gave them a secret project to research it if they wanted to. Certain programs or projects gave them bonuses for this dice roll. The technology was then going to gradually spread over the next four or five years. This was meant to represent a country weaponising technologies that were already present.

I believe thats the most 'realistic' way to do it. On the other hand, its a lot of work, so if you aren't going for 'realism' then you may as well use a tech tree or some variant of it.

 

[Terrance888]

Mine was just a suggestion for a war-focused NES. (like possibly this or INES) A long term NES with various periods of war and peace would be better served by GK's system.

 

[Nintz]

I don't actually think a "tech tree" is bad, even unrealistic, if you scale the costs based upon certain factors.

For example:

The base cost for "Medium Tanks" is 100.

1- The number of people/those who have it X the base = one aspect. If 8/20 have it, then 1- .4 = .6. Thus making the tech 60% more expensive. This way, developments in experimental or novel concepts are extremely expensive in order to yield results, while the tech can remain cheap for those who pick it up later.

Secondly, size should matter. This is purely for gameplay reasons, but it need to be that the samller nations have a decreased cost. Perhaps something along the lines of : Your nation's EP/max EP of any one nation X tech cost = final cost.

Of course, none of this is very mod or player friendly, I am just making the point that it CAN be done, and it isn't even hard to imagine how.

 

[Terrance888]

What might make Nintz system work is a spreadsheet system outlaying all the visible techs and the cost to get there for each available nation.

SPREAD SHEET NES!

Anyway, suggestion for the UU system. If you are having separate units then just have designs and strong units and stuff. If you just have Divisions/Squadrons/Airplanes then the UU system must be flexible enough for both Divisions with Special Training v.s. Specialized Divisions v.s. Special Operations type UUs.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Will we get a small description of what our nations have gone through since 1918 to 1922?

Exactly that is in the works, yes. It is more likely that rather than specific national information the description will go by region, but the 1918 - 1922 period will be covered in some shape or form in the finished background.

 

[Arrow Gamer]

For UUs, I think that they should mostly be spec ops, as in Navy Seals or Green Beret, or for a certain kind of vehicle, as in Panzer. Or even something like a method of attack, as in Blitzkrieg. Just my thoughts.

As for research, I think that it should be funded, just for gameplay purposes, but there should be a element of randomness.. Maybe funded indirectly via schools and colleges? And there has to be spread of technology, or else the game is unfair.

 

[TheLizardKing]

I was planning on using a tech system similar to what GK proposed. The only issue I'm coming across is the requirements for techs are largely arbitrary and made up, as I am no expert on things such as aircraft development, and ICBM design. Though, if players are willing to ignore some flaws, so am I.

UUs are going to be whatever the player can come up with, be it tank designs, infantry designs, aircraft designs, etc. The old system I used worked fairly well, but the issue was that all designs cost the same amount, with the technologies costing variable numbers. The issue with that is, I largely made up the stats for the UUS.. and it was just a mess. So I'm looking at possible routes to increase or decrease the price of UU's depending on what exactly the player is looking for.

The stats will be essentially just like the old NES stats, with an easy to manage upkeep stat, that will disappear when a nation mobilizes for war.

I wouldn't say this NES is 'war' based, or 'peace based'. That's entirely up to the players.

South Africa is open, but is a Dominion of Britain, so you'll have to work with them. Or you're supposed to, at any rate.

EDIT: Also, yes, I intend on giving you an idea of where you're nation is at, the direction it is heading, etc. I can also answer any questions you have here, or over PM.

 

[arya126]

Looking over the front page of the SMW2 thread, I liked the way the UUs were set out over there. Any way you could keep a similar UU system in this version?

Also, I like GK's idea for technology. Definitly realistic, and it would stop players from saying "Oh well lets see, jet aircraft are going to appear in a few years so lets create a project specifically to speed that up". Instead they would have to actually invest in related projects and get creative.

Alternatively you could do what you did in the SMW2 NES and use UUs to advance Tech, as that also has its own merits for a war based game.

EDIT: X-Post.

 

[erez87]

Tech tree? :-\

Until I see the ruleset, I'll 'claim' France, but if anyone else wants it, I'll give it to him...

 

[arya126]

Who has claimed Russia? Its not listed as claimed on the front page, but on the claimed nations map TLK posted it was colored in to show it has been claimed...

 

[TheLizardKing]

Justo still technically has a claim to Russia, seeing as he was the original player.

 

[arya126]

Justo still technically has a claim to Russia, seeing as he was the original player.

Ah okay. I just hadn't seen that he had reclaimed it. If something happens and he doesn't return can I still switch to Russia from Norway?

 

[J.K. Stockholme]

Wait wait... is that independent Suez? That is a unique brown.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Ah okay. I just hadn't seen that he had reclaimed it. If something happens and he doesn't return can I still switch to Russia from Norway?

No.

And the Suez is co-owned between Germany and Italy.

 

[Optical]

South Africa is open, but is a Dominion of Britain, so you'll have to work with them. Or you're supposed to, at any rate.

Actually, that sounds like even more fun and options for being completely evil. I'll take it!

 

[TheLizardKing]

Just a quick update; only a few more stats left to do. Mostly empires, as they have been taking awhile. I'll get them posted sometime tomorrow, then start working on a clear ruleset. God-willing, I can get this thing up and running within the next few days.

 

[bonefang]

Query :

I have Egypt claimed against my name. Also, Egypt is an Italian Dominion. Does that mean I have to obey what ever Italy orders me to do ?

Regarding Tech Tree : I think, a HoI style tech system is nice. I loved the Capto style UU development.

 

[Nintz]

You are supposed to. It is possible to ignore them, or even outright rebel. However, that would lead to war immediately with a much stronger power.

 

[Milarqui]

So, since Australia and NZ are Dominions of the United Kingdom, can I convince the UK to fuse Australia and New Zealand into one Dominion?