onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
That's easy to say until you have a Trump supporter in front of you. What about then? Are you still, "They have a right to their opinion."?
J
Socialism & Capitalism
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J
BirraImperial
Pura Vida!
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery". Winston Churchill
Churchill had a big eloquent mouth fitting the smoke he produced with his cigars, but he was a misery with money
"Winston Churchill’s finances were a shambles for most of his life. It was a state of affairs, as David Lough reveals in No More Champagne: Churchill and His Money, entirely of Churchill’s own making. Over the course of a tumultuous political career spanning more than half a century and encompassing two changes of party and a dozen cabinet positions, including two stints as prime minister, Churchill spent money he did not have—extravagantly."
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazin...nston-churchill-was-so-bad-with-money/419094/
Lexicus
Deity
The same Winston who gassed Iraqi villages and let millions of people die in India pretty much on purpose?
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
And considered to be one of the greatest leaders in history! Besides, those guys got what was coming to them for daring to question the Crown!
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
"If I were Italian, I am sure I would have been with you [Mussolini] entirely from the beginning of your victorious struggle against the bestial appetites and passion of Leninism. Your movement has rendered a service to the whole world." - Big Winny C.
Lexicus
Deity
"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes"
-WC
edit: perhaps more to the point of this thread, I'm just now learning the British used gas, presumably at Churchill's urging, in their military intervention against the Bolsheviks in Russia! What a hero
-WC
edit: perhaps more to the point of this thread, I'm just now learning the British used gas, presumably at Churchill's urging, in their military intervention against the Bolsheviks in Russia! What a hero
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
In utter fairness to the syphilitic old baboon, the quote is talking about non-lethal gases, which he justified on the grounds that it would result in a lesser loss of life compared to traditional means of population control.
So instead, let's piss on his grave for the death squads in Ireland, Kenya and Malaysia.
So instead, let's piss on his grave for the death squads in Ireland, Kenya and Malaysia.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Wtf is this non lethal gas and how is it supposed to beat your enemies. Laughing gas? Did he want to drug them into submission?
Lexicus
Deity
It was kinda like tear gas iirc.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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We talking about the same Churchill who launched the Tory 1945 general election campaign by saying a Labour victory would result in a new Gestapo?
That would be tasteless to say now, let alone in 1945 about people who served admirably and with distinction in the wartime Coalition government.Churchill said:
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
The same Churchill that only amounted to anything during a national crisis. So, everything was a crisis.
J
It's what the ATF used in Waco.
J
Ajidica
High Quality Person
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Really not sure what that has to do, with well, anything that has been posted about him. That he was fond of gassing Muslim hill tribes, had fascist sympathies, and was never entirely sold on the concept of democracy.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
I thought I just said that. His fascist sympathies were what made him so effective against fascists.
If you believe in the never entirely discredited sociological theory of wolves and sheep, Churchill was a wolf. At the time, that was what England needed. Not so much in the post-war cleanup.
J
Berzerker
Deity
that was a mass shooting of the messenger
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
As my father used to say, re Churchill's losing the 1945 election, "In wartime he frightened the enemy, in peacetime he frightened us".
Lexicus
Deity
I used to think this, but my brother pointed out that there was no peace party in the UK at the time. Churchill may have been a good/competent war leader (I actually think his obsession with the "soft underbelly of Europe" was idiocy but that's, like, my opinion) but I think it's at best hagiography to say that Britain "needed" him.
Not only after the war
A long time ago I bought for my father as birthday present the "memoires" written by Churchill. He liked history, and WW2 was during his youth.
When I gave it to my father, my mother snapped: "he was not a good man... not everything he will tell in the book will be true".
Churchill is said to have remarked on our Queen Wilhelmina: "the only man" in your government.
No wonder if you know that Queen Wilhelmina was before WW2 very much believing in a new world order where weak politicians had to be reigned in by strong man. They both were not that far away from fascist convictions.
For herself that came close to a divine absolute monarchy. In London she had her chance, because "she" was the hope of her poor occupied people, surrounding herself with yes-nodders and visits from Dutch resistance people who crossed the North Sea, not with those rambling (chosen) ministers around her. After the war she resigned in 1948 as a disappointed person, because democracy was stronger.
One of the Churchill operations was to wage a sabotage war in the Netherlands. A selected group (50 or so) of those Dutch resistance people, that all had their cup of tea with the Queen, were send back during 1942-1944 in small groups to the Nertherlands after a sabotage training in the UK. But were all caught immediately by the Germans when they parachuted down, because the Germans were informed. The Germans very proud that their counter-intelligence operation called Englandspiel worked so well.
The nasty thing here is that although the UK called it one of the biggest intelligence blunders they ever made, especially while they continued the operation after repeated warnings of the Dutch resistance that it was betrayed, there are a lot of indications that this operation was a counter-counter intelligence operation, where these resistance people needed to be sacrificed to feed the Germans with wrong information and extract info from intelligence feedback on that false info.
Nobody will probably ever find out what really happened.
But it left a bad taste in the Dutch resistance about the UK and Churchill, already during the war.
And nobody at that time had forgotten the UK war with the (former Dutch) Boers in South-Africa, the British concentration camps, which happened only 40-50 years earlier. Many childrens books about freemen Boers fighting guerilla against the evil British in SA. Churchill pictured in British press as a South African war hero.
Here some info on that Englandspiel
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...gence-send-its-own-spies-to-their-deaths.html
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Lexicus
Deity
I mean, from primary sources in that telegraph article you posted it looks pretty clear that it was a counter-counterintelligence operation.
