Someone call 911! (Figuratively speaking)

[Gary Childress]

EDIT NOTE: For those not familiar with U.S. phone service, dialing 911 is a three digit number you can call for help in an emergency on most American phone lines.

On the eve of the 100th anniversary of the initial declaration of war in World War I. What a way to honor those who perished in the first half of the 20th century. Calling all spirits of the dead...HELP!!!!!!!

It would be nice if all parties involved could get a grip on themselves and resolve this without killing each other. I hope Obama is out there listening...

WASHINGTON (AP) — Stepping up pressure on Moscow, the U.S. on Sunday released satellite images it says show that rockets have been fired from Russia into neighboring eastern Ukraine and that heavy artillery for separatists has crossed the border.

snip...

More recently, U.S. intelligence officials have said they have what they call a solid circumstantial case that Russian-backed separatists in Eastern Ukraine are responsible for downing the Malaysia Airlines plane. Citing satellite imagery, intercepted conversations and social media postings, officials say a Russian-made SA-11 surface-to-air missile hit the plane on July 17.

Moscow denies any involvement in the attack.

U.S. officials said they still don't know who fired the missile or whether Russian military officers were present when it happened. But until Sunday, they were unwilling to share evidence that the separatists had the technology to down a plane.

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20140727/2e2a5401-7e2d-4114-9801-374b874ff513

 

[DaveShack]

The background of the inset image is a plowed field, which provides a perfect backdrop to show that there was activity there. Whether the disturbed soil is from an artillery launch is open to question, and there is also a time element which wouldn't be revealed from one image.

If we assume Russia knows our photo recon ability, and it's quite reasonable to assume they do, then they'd have to be idiots to fire from this location and expect we wouldn't know. Either they want Ukraine to know it's not just the rebels, or they don't want the EU to think they're a pushover. If Russia wanted the artillery to be clandestine, they'd mess up the field so that the background doesn't show evidence.

 

[Gary Childress]

The background of the inset image is a plowed field, which provides a perfect backdrop to show that there was activity there. Whether the disturbed soil is from an artillery launch is open to question, and there is also a time element which wouldn't be revealed from one image.

If we assume Russia knows our photo recon ability, and it's quite reasonable to assume they do, then they'd have to be idiots to fire from this location and expect we wouldn't know. Either they want Ukraine to know it's not just the rebels, or they don't want the EU to think they're a pushover. If Russia wanted the artillery to be clandestine, they'd mess up the field so that the background doesn't show evidence.

Good point. I'm curious, does anyone have any ideas on how the situation could be solved diplomatically? Some sort of compromise or something? I hope this doesn't get too scary.

I feel like saying, "citizens of the world unite! Stop your politicians!" Ugh...

 

[Daw]

I'm curious, does anyone have any ideas on how the situation could be solved diplomatically? Some sort of compromise or something?

It actually seems like either side has a whole lot of ideas. The only problem is that they are not accepted by the either other side. So it's like generating ideas or presenting them is not the problem. Listening is. And while they can't agree upon anything in the UNSC or OSCE, things keep developing into something really nasty.

I feel like saying, "citizens of the world unite! Stop your politicians!" Ugh...

Yes, a very much familiar feeling. I wish I had enough mana to cast the "freeze" spell.

 

[warpus]

Good point. I'm curious, does anyone have any ideas on how the situation could be solved diplomatically? Some sort of compromise or something? I hope this doesn't get too scary.

I feel like saying, "citizens of the world unite! Stop your politicians!" Ugh...

The person who has the most power here is Putin.. He can put a quick stop to all of this if he wants to.

But he doesn't. In his mind we're still in the middle of a cold war and the Soviet Union needs to be revived.

 

[Kyriakos]

The person who has the most power here is Putin.. He can put a quick stop to all of this if he wants to.

But he doesn't. In his mind we're still in the middle of a cold war and the Soviet Union needs to be revived.

Then again, if not for the latest Ukraine business, it is highly likely we would currently be watching another 'Merican war/invasion- in Syria.

 

[warpus]

Yeah, I'm sure the Americans are not invading whatever country they were going to because of all of this.

 

[Daw]

The person who has the most power here is Putin.. He can put a quick stop to all of this if he wants to.

Yeah, I'm sure the Americans are not invading whatever country they were going to because of all of this.

And that makes a huuuuge reason for Putin not to put a quick stop there: he's just taking it for the rest of the world. Kidding.

Seriously, "The person who has the most power here is Putin" is just a mantra your media keeps repeating. I don't think he has more influence over separatists than US/EU govs have over Poroshenko (or at least had over Turchinov&Co.)

So the only real chance to stop it there is that Putin and the US/EU agree upon something and use their influence from both sides. Otherwise it's too unilateral for Putin to agree, or for the separatists to listen if Putin agrees.

I actually think it will be a good move for everyone to look at each other and say something like, "well, you know what? It does actually seem like we all have been somewhat overreacting...

" Then it will work. Otherwise it won't (or at least I don't see how it can).

 

[timtofly]

Now I know why Russia did not come to the Syrian Aid. They're starting at the north end and working their way south.

 

[Daw]

You still think Russia is expansionist, don't you? Look at the map. There's no point in getting any bigger.

 

[Rashiminos]

The background of the inset image is a plowed field, which provides a perfect backdrop to show that there was activity there. Whether the disturbed soil is from an artillery launch is open to question, and there is also a time element which wouldn't be revealed from one image.

If we assume Russia knows our photo recon ability, and it's quite reasonable to assume they do, then they'd have to be idiots to fire from this location and expect we wouldn't know. Either they want Ukraine to know it's not just the rebels, or they don't want the EU to think they're a pushover. If Russia wanted the artillery to be clandestine, they'd mess up the field so that the background doesn't show evidence.

Do they have a better version of the picture somewhere? One of the insets looks a little funny.

The person who has the most power here is Putin.. He can put a quick stop to all of this if he wants to.

He doesn't. Direct Russian military actions don't appear to be on the table yet, despite increasing provocations.

But he doesn't. In his mind we're still in the middle of a cold war and the Soviet Union needs to be revived.

Mind explaining your telepathy to the rest of the class?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1cini_wyclef-jean-mary-j-blige-911_music (ripped from a German channel no less)

 

[warpus]

Seriously, "The person who has the most power here is Putin" is just a mantra your media keeps repeating. I don't think he has more influence over separatists than US/EU govs have over Poroshenko (or at least had over Turchinov&Co.)

The separatists are getting intelligence and military equipment from Russia.

That's what I'm referring to, not Putin meeting with them and telling them what to do.

 

[Daw]

The separatists are getting intelligence and military equipment from Russia.

As for the intelligence, rumor puts it that US military advisors occupy a whole floor in the Ukraine Security Service building. If it's true, I suggest these advisors go and advise the UA gov to do something constructive and reasonable for a change.

As for the military equipment, every rebel in the world is running around with an AK and an RPG, and it does not necessarily mean Putin has authority over any one of them. The black market is reportedly tremendous. Everything else can be looted from UA military. Including Su-25 for instance. Or Buk if it comes to that. The fact you don't believe the fact does not change the fact you don't believe.

No rebel becomes a rebel because he too happy to remain a lawful citizen (even if he's given a bookcase of intelligence and a huge pile of weapons). Rebels become rebels because their government does something they cannot tolerate. So, if any government has any rebels inside their country, it is the government's own fault. Was true in Russia in 1917, was true in the USSR in 1991, was true for Maidan vs. Yanukovich scenario, is still true with these particular rebels.