Something to ponder...........

[Greadius]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Bush really thinks America is by far the best country in the world

He ought to think that. It comes with the territory.

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
...and doesn't have to respect other nations much

Factually speaking, he doesn't.
Its what Bush percieves to be in the best interest of the U.S. conflicting with what some other world leaders think is in the best interest of their countries.
It has nothing to do with respect. That is the responsibility of the State department to give the image of respect if it exists or not. That is why the Clinton left such a better impression with the rest of the world: they were under the impression their voice would actually have influence on U.S. policy.

Originally posted by Ohwell
Bush IS bullying countries to give in to his wishes. It is obvious... but I don't mean he is threatening. He is just being a bit selfish, thats all!

Compared to what? The altruistic motives of the world-consulting bodies that design French foreign policy?

Originally posted by Becka
I can just see the waves of Republican Stormtrooper accountants strongarming dissidents now.

Originally posted by Richard III
Well, good, because it was a pretty stupid line; one of those rare ones that sets a mood that's hard to shake years after. While in the UK, I must have had that line shoved in my face a dozen times, and about 1,000 times in Canada, and I haven't exactly been wandering the streets looking for anti-war activists to talk to.

Exactly. The one line was out of place and has allowed them to rally around and get all excited because they think they get to take on an evil, war-mongering, manevolent fascist.
If it were only that simple...

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Becka
Yes. It's a condition I developed from spycatcher34. "Mischief Smiley Overuse" or MSO I think the medical community is calling it now. I control it with medication. (Obviously not very well, though.)

If that's the case, perhaps you should stop with the medication entirely so we can see the syndrome at its fullest effect. Only then could we find a cure.


It's a good new trend to recognize. Better than most trends, like cutting holes in new jeans so they look old or tie-dieing t-shirts or piercing senstive areas or something equally silly.

Now that you mention it, MSO IS better than all of those trends. Come to think of it, aren't we overdue for something like that? Surely the baggy jeans that hang too low thing has to be moving on to something new...

But I digress.

As for civil rights- guns? I don't think you need those. You can give them to me now. And free press? Maybe we'll put that on hold for a little while.

Funny, although Greadius just referred to me as an honorary american (whatever that is), I still have trouble wrapping my head around the second amendment as being a "civil" right, however much a right it might apparently be.

R.III

 

[stalin006]

ok simply lets remember that is a quite popoular qoute, more than two leders have said it, in many different times in history, also the quote is too broad to make a big comparison between hitler and bush.
hitler was a megalomaniac who wanted world rule, he was sick in his head.
bush........well i think the fact taht for so many months the international world was on his side after sept 11, that got into his head and now thinks that whatever he wants he can take just cuz hes bush "ruler of the free world" and everyone should back him up no matter what.

but thats just me

 

[Becka]

Originally posted by Greadius

You have to admit, the guy in the tie and white shirt DOES look like an accountant. And I can't for the LIFE of me figure out what that gorilla's doing there.


[Edit- nevermind, the gorrila is gone. But that was really WEIRD. And I don't think your average Joe Gorilla on the street would be a republican. ]

 

[Archer 007]

In reality, Bush and Hitler really are quite simliar.

Warmongering
Strong Devoted Right-Wing Following
Decrimination

 

[Richard III]

Could someone please put a caption to the picture? What the hell is it?

(looks like my grad class, 14 years later. Oh wait, it IS 14 years later! Sufferin Jesus, I look like those people!)

 

[Greadius]

Originally posted by Becka
You have to admit, the guy in the tie and white shirt DOES look like an accountant. And I can't for the LIFE of me figure out what that gorilla's doing there.

Gorilla? What gorilla?

Originally posted by Richard III
Could someone please put a caption to the picture? What the hell is it?

Those people are republican's, most of them out of state staffers for elected Republicans from around the country strong-arming the Miami-Dade election board into halting recounts in November of 2000.

First thing I thought of when I heard "Republican Stormtroopers"

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Greadius
Those people are republican's, most of them out of state staffers for elected Republicans from around the country strong-arming the Miami-Dade election board into halting recounts in November of 2000.

I guess that explains why I look like them .

Although I have to admit, by standards up here, they are actually a little old to be political staffers. And in retrospect, I DO look better than they do, too, which is reassuring.

First thing I thought of when I heard "Republican Stormtroopers"

My reaction:

Leia: "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"

R.III

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Greadius: someone might tell Dubya that Americas best interest is often getting along with the world....

take the international court thing - why the **** isn't he satisfied if he can ahve people tried in the US? After all, if the US is so great only guilty people would be punished, the Great American Legal System (sarcasm dripping from every word) should make sure of that..........


No, Bush has a seriuos case of megalomania................ but after all his keeper Powell is still closeby

 

[cgannon64]

Very very interesting. We must not say Bush didn't know that Hitler said that---Bush doesn't write his speeches. Obviously a slip by his writers.

You people say that Bush and Hitler said those things in different context---to Hitler, they were the same thing. We were attacked, our country embarrassed. Hitler felt his nation's pride was destroyed after the Treaty of WW1 (is it Versailles? I can't remember). Both leaders saw themselves as defending their nations and their freedoms. However, one actually is, and one was simply foolish.

Gotta love that picture, Greadius. Just open those fists, and there is the Nazi salute. And I think Lucas based the Stormtroopers on Nazi soldiers---same name, same 'blocks' of soldiers. All the lack is the salute. (I realized this after seeing a picture of a Nazi rally and Star Wars in the same day---identical formation).

CG

 

[omichyron]

Bush seems to have some really incompetent speach writers. I think he is an incompetent figurehead with no will of his own, and not at all like Hitler (wow, I offended both sides of the argument with one statement )

 

[Greadius]

Actually, his speech writers are usually very, very good. Clearly the best in the business, with decades of experience amongst them. Its the puppet that keeps faltering and making the mistakes.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

omichyron: I do not think you offended anyone here - after all, we are civilized people who can deal with someone having a different opinion

I alos think Bush is incompetent - but no more that I'd expect from a TV personality poitician. At least he had the good sense to bring Powell back.......

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Greadius: I rarely agree with you (at least agree fully), but here I think you are absolutely correct - the writers are just fine, but maybe the people who tell them what to write and the person who reads the speeches aren't.......

 

[HotDog Fish]

Originally posted by Greadius
Those people are republican's, most of them out of state staffers for elected Republicans from around the country strong-arming the Miami-Dade election board into halting recounts in November of 2000.

First thing I thought of when I heard "Republican Stormtroopers"

Oh they ARE Republicans...no wonder why they where all white! Well I completely agree with the Lt. here, you can have the best litersry minds and writers and spin doctors in theworld to make a monkey look like a good, charismatic, public speaker but in the end he's still a monkey

 

[knowltok2]

Originally posted by cgannon64


And I think Lucas based the Stormtroopers on Nazi soldiers---same name, same 'blocks' of soldiers. All the lack is the salute. (I realized this after seeing a picture of a Nazi rally and Star Wars in the same day---identical formation).

Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, and Imperial Rome. Those would be the influences for the Empire in Star Wars.

 

[gr8ful wes]

Time Magazine had a neat little bit on how bush sees and sayes things in very simple black and white terms, or good and evil terms. That is part of his apeal to some, but this all or none attitude needs to be altered. He is afterall a politician, he should know better.

That is a very interesting discovery about those quotes by the way.

 

[Richard III]

You know, en route to Starbucks this morning for the daily pilgrimage, it occurred to me that this whole thread has been somewhat unfair: while Bush holds ultimate responsibility for the stupid line, the other failure here is in what is known as the "staffing process," whereby the draft speech is "staffed out" to advisors who are responsible for the policy areas effected to see if something is likely to generate a problem.

Speechwriters are not responsible for policy; their job is to provide a draft that is in good enough shape to be cut to ribbons by Policy staff. The last major speech I wrote while working in government was left almost untouched and was written in a situation where I had unusual freedom to write what I wanted, but it still had to be signed off on by several hands before it was actually seen by the guy who delivered it:

- The Deputy Minister
- Legal (two people)
- 1 legislative drafters (because the speech was about a new bill)
- Ministry's civil service policy director + a member of his staff
- Ministry's civil service communications director

In normal circumstances, a major speech might also have gone through the Premier's office (at least three different hands there) and through other staff in the Minister's office.

My understanding is that the Presidential staffing process for a foreign policy speech is about ten times the size of the one above. So if no one flagged it, then "no one" is also the dumbass here.

R.III

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Richard: assuming it wasn't Bushs own idea......

I am 99% sure Powell would have cut that down, so would have Fleischer, probably even Rice - if they'd had a say or even heard the rumor........

 

[Greadius]

Considering the speech was drafted within hours of Sept. 11th, I think the first thing on their mind was to get out the message.

I think they wanted to draw such a clear cut line, and didn't realize that the statement would be as big of a deal as it was.
But, I wouldn't be surprised if that clear cut moralism wasn't something Bush stuck in there himself.