Spanking children. What good does it do ?

[Godwynn]

Hah! A fine...

It instills discipline. Young kids understand a slap on the rear a lot more than an explanation of the dangers of doing this or that.

I was whipped with a belt in my youth and am better for it. I think I deserved it too.

Plus, I knew I was in trouble when the belt came out. No other measure can possibly do that.

~Chris

What he said.

 

[Defiant47]

I'm kinda uncomfortable with this idea of children as property and obedient pets. The idea that you have to terrorise a kid to get them to do what you want them to is kinda creepy.

You have to accept the fact that they are essentially animals until you discipline them. You don't "terrorize" them, you just make it clear to them that doing something is bad. If they still don't get the point, you might have to escalate to spanking.

Do you really believe this tripe or are you just being contrary?

Do you know what discipline is?

If you love your kid you have to embarrass and hit them?

Where's the embarrassment? The point is that you do it at an early age, and at home. If you have to spank them at a later age in order to control them means that you have already failed (though you can still turn it around, though much harder).

I'd imagine kids whose parents had strong personalities & effective enough communication skills to make punishment unnecessary will have plenty healthy kids.

You clearly don't understand young kids that don't care about what is told to them. If communication works, that's great! It is likely, though, that you'll have to go beyond that, lest you want your kid to be as undisciplined as an animal for the rest of his/her life.

If you're a effective parent you don't need punishment, just consequences. Ideally consequences to fit the crime.

natural consequence : For example, throwing food on the floor = no dinner.

punitive & unrelated punishment Throwing food on the floor = drop your pants, bend over and get your ass smacked won't make much sense to a kid & isn't an effective way of showing why it's bad to waste food.

Oh yeah? And what do you do with escalation? No dinner, and he/she does something else that is very bad because he/she is angry at not getting his/her way. You can talk to them all you want, but at some point you might have to administer some physical punishment to make the point clear, so that they may be set straight (for the rest of their lives, mind you).

 

[scy12]

So to summarize, you consider spanking as sexual abuse because #1 it is not done for health reasons, #2 it is done to impose someone's will on another, and/or #3 it is a symbol of punishment.

#1 - Parents that do it, logically consider it necessary. I've never met a parent that spanked their children despite considering it unnecessary.

#2 - Police arresting someone and putting them in handcuffs is now sexual abuse? Or is it "necessary"?

#3 - Prison terms for convicts is now sexual abuse? Or is that too "necessary"?



It is not sexual abuse, glad we agree. Why is it not? Diapers and 'scat play' is a fetish with some people, just like spanking is.

Wrong on all counts. That is because you forgot one little thing , if you misinterpret one's position , then your arguement of disproving it by presenting it as an arguement that does not make sense is wrong by default.
But the thing is it is not just wrong but it is an obvious strawman and a waste of time for me , to disprove it.

So to summarize, you consider spanking as sexual abuse because #1 it is not done for health reasons, #2 it is done to impose someone's will on another, and/or #3 it is a symbol of punishment.

#1 - Parents that do it, logically consider it necessary. I've never met a parent that spanked their children despite considering it unnecessary.

#2 - Police arresting someone and putting them in handcuffs is now sexual abuse? Or is it "necessary"?

#3 - Prison terms for convicts is now sexual abuse? Or is that too "necessary"?

Now let's see what i wrote.

Now let's see. The Prostate exam could be considered sexual abuse if it was not done for health reasons.

Prostate exam , that is done i imagine by a doctor putting an object or his finger in your butt. Which is "Sexual" in nature. But as i said it is not considered sexual abuse.

It is necessary. Because it is done for health reasons it gets a free pass.

The free pass here is to again make it obvious that i am talking about actions "Sexual " in nature , though it may be hard to define the range of actions we should include in it (And that is the only thing you should have said against my arguement and not the strawman) . And as i said some actions may get a free pass.

Also the doctor does not do it to impose his will to you , or as a symbol of punishment. If you sexually abuse someone to discipline them into obeying you then you don't get such a free pass. Because it is done from one Human to an other so he can impose his will on him or punish him. It is sexual in nature and it is abuse. Whether you think sexual abuse is effective that is an other matter but i believe by definition is neither effective not humane.

It is necessary. Because it is done for health reasons it gets a free pass. Also the doctor does not do it to impose his will to you , or as a symbol of punishment. If you sexually abuse someone to discipline them into obeying you then you don't get such a free pass. Because it is done from one Human to an other so he can impose his will on him or punish him. It is sexual in nature and it is abuse.

And finally i say that some "sexual" actions that are done to impose one's will on an other or to punish them , "Do not get a free pass " are not in the same category as Prostate examination that is done by the consent of all parties.

You can dispute how much "Sexual" in nature is spanking , but not the abuse part. Thankfully several countries had the wisdom to make it illegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanking


So please avoid wasting ones time by misinterpreting there position. If it was not on purpose please consider thinking more your response.

It is not sexual abuse, glad we agree. Why is it not? Diapers and 'scat play' is a fetish with some people, just like spanking is.

But it must be ! After all i said that prison terms for convicts is sexual abuse !!

 

[aneeshm]

It's always amazing how the people that were spanked feel some sort of compulsion to defend the practice. I guess that's how it gets perpetuated.

I don't even properly remember being spanked, the two or three memories I have of it are half-reconstructed ones based on imagination and what I've been told. And I don't think I was spanked beyond the age of ten or eleven.

Because such action was always well-timed and deserved, and it stopped when it should have, the end result has been that I respect my parents, and they me.




I think that parent-child relationships turn out best when both have roughly the same amounts of willpower/assertiveness. If the parents have too much more than the child, you end up with a child who cannot assert himself. If the child has too much more than the parents, then he turns out impossible to parent, and a disciplinary nightmare, and is eventually spoiled.

 

[MobBoss]

I think that parent-child relationships turn out best when both have roughly the same amounts of willpower/assertiveness. If the parents have too much more than the child, you end up with a child who cannot assert himself. If the child has too much more than the parents, then he turns out impossible to parent, and a disciplinary nightmare, and is eventually spoiled.

Somewhat true, but tell me, is the childs assertiveness or lack thereof simply part of the childs personality......or an issue of the parenting style of the parents?

When I see a child that is a nightmare child, obviously spoiled, I tend to blame the parents, not the child.

 

[scy12]

Somewhat true, but tell me, is the childs assertiveness or lack thereof simply part of the childs personality......or an issue of the parenting style of the parents?

When I see a child that is a nightmare child, obviously spoiled, I tend to blame the parents, not the child.

What about brothers where all but one (let's say out of five brothers) are good behaved (as you understand it ) and there is one that is spoiled ?

 

[MobBoss]

What about brothers where all but one (let's say out of five brothers) are good behaved (as you understand it ) and there is one that is spoiled ?

I would still blame the parents since the were obviously unable to adapt their skills to handle a child with a different temperment from their other kids.

I have three girls. And while my oldest and youngest are quite similar, my middle daughter had to be parented much differently because she would have a much different reaction than her sibs. Now, if we had kept on using the same methods with her as we did the other two we would have failed her as parents. But we recognized her different personality, and used different methods to change her behavior which worked.

 

[scy12]

I would still blame the parents since the were obviously unable to adapt their skills to handle a child with a different temperment from their other kids.

I have three girls. And while my oldest and youngest are quite similar, my middle daughter had to be parented much differently because she would have a much different reaction than her sibs. Now, if we had kept on using the same methods with her as we did the other two we would have failed her as parents. But we recognized her different personality, and used different methods to change her behavior which worked.

Well yes , but their is a child we can imagine with a different personality in it , that requires such different handling from the Parents that for example even you , could not cope.

But on the other hand i agree with you that the parent should attempt to be as perfect as he can.

But as always we have to draw a line. Sometimes the Parent could everything he could to adapt and handle the situation. Making judgment for the Parent due to his children actions would in that example be bad.

 

[emzie]

Dunno if it does any good for the kid, but damned if I wouldn't feel better afterward.

 

[MobBoss]

Well yes , but their is a child we can imagine with a different personality in it , that requires such different handling from the Parents that for example even you , could not cope.

Its a parents obligation to cope to the childs behavior and needs, not the child to cope with the parents inability to handle the child.

But as always we have to draw a line. Sometimes the Parent could everything he could to adapt and handle the situation. Making judgment for the Parent due to his children actions would in that example be bad.

Again, how do you know its not the parents fault to begin with? Why are you so eager to lay blame on the child?

 

[scy12]

Its a parents obligation to cope to the childs behavior and needs, not the child to cope with the parents inability to handle the child.



Again, how do you know its not the parents fault to begin with? Why are you so eager to lay blame on the child?

Its a parents obligation to cope to the childs behavior and needs, not the child to cope with the parents inability to handle the child.

It is but , there is not a perfect parent that can handle every different possible behavior of a child so it does not end up "Spoiled".

Blaming the parent (though we should expect from him the best) is not always the preferable situation.

Again, how do you know its not the parents fault to begin with? Why are you so eager to lay blame on the child?

I am not blaming the child. I know several cases where bad Parenting lead to spoiled behavior by children. But i am not expecting Parents to be perfect either. There are exceptions where the Parents inability to handle a child's behavior is justified.

 

[MobBoss]

It is but , there is not a perfect parent that can handle every different possible behavior of a child so it does not end up "Spoiled".

Ensuring a child doesnt end up spoiled doesnt take 'perfection'....just some due diligence. Millions of people around the globe manage it quite fine thank you.

Blaming the parent (though we should expect from him the best) is not always the preferable situation.

Actually, I think it is. If I see a little brat throwing a fit in a shopping mall and the parent has no idea of what to do, or basically ignores the kid then thats precisely the parents fault for allowing that type of behavior to develop.

I am not blaming the child. I know several cases where bad Parenting lead to spoiled behavior by children. But i am not expecting Parents to be perfect either.

The logical fallacy of your arguement is parents dont need to be perfect in order to be good parents.

There are exceptions where the Parents inability to handle a child's behavior is justified.

I disagree. I think thats a copout for parents unwilling to do what is necessary to raise their kid.

 

[Grisu]

I disagree. I think thats a copout for parents unwilling to do what is necessary to raise their kid.

funny, this is pretty much how I view spanking

 

[scy12]

Ensuring a child doesnt end up spoiled doesnt take 'perfection'....just some due diligence. Millions of people around the globe manage it quite fine thank you.



Actually, I think it is. If I see a little brat throwing a fit in a shopping mall and the parent has no idea of what to do, or basically ignores the kid then thats precisely the parents fault for allowing that type of behavior to develop.



The logical fallacy of your arguement is parents dont need to be perfect in order to be good parents.



I disagree. I think thats a copout for parents unwilling to do what is necessary to raise their kid.

Ensuring a child doesnt end up spoiled doesnt take 'perfection'....just some due diligence. Millions of people around the globe manage it quite fine thank you.

Because they may have not been unlucky enough their child's personality to be unable to be handled.

Actually, I think it is. If I see a little brat throwing a fit in a shopping mall and the parent has no idea of what to do, or basically ignores the kid then thats precisely the parents fault for allowing that type of behavior to develop.

Maybe it is.

The logical fallacy of your arguement is parents dont need to be perfect in order to be good parents.

The logical fallacy of your arguement is that how good a parent is ,is related to what kind of child he has to be a parent to.

Therefor we are certain to find some parents who are good for most types of children with specific personalities but unable to handle a specific personality. If they are unlucky enough their child to have that personality then they are defined by you as Bad parents for not being perfect.

One CAN be unable to handle a specific situation and still be better than many things than someone else who copes well with situations that are quite easier to handle.

This is simply correct , for everything not only this subject.

I disagree. I think thats a copout for parents unwilling to do what is necessary to raise their kid.

And i think generalizations are certain to make mistake in their judgment.

funny, this is pretty much how I view spanking

Well , add me to the club.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Do you have kids? Were you spanked as a kid?

For the record - I have no children.

Please read before you reply.
Yes, my parents spanked me.

I will simply say that not all child behavior experts agree on this.

True. And that's why I mentioned the source instead of stating something like "all child behaviour experts say ...".

Punishments are used as a method to change behavior. Rewards can be used in much the same way. Not all kids respond the same to either punishments or rewards; or in turn, may respond quite differently to various punishments/rewards.

True. And what's your point in regards to the topic "what good does spanking do what other methods of disciplining can't do?" ?

As both a parent, and as someone who was spanked as a child, I can positively say that it does indeed change ones behavior. I was even spanked in public school and see no problem with that either. It had its desired effect upon me at least.

That's only a marginal relevant answer to the question "what good does spanking do what other methods of disciplining can't do ?". And frankly, I don't think I would like my children to turn out like the image I have of you.

That's waterboarding, isn't it?

I did get that association as well, until I realised there's a world of differnce between a cold shower and waterboarding. See it as a quick method to cool a child down.
BTW I don't think I'll use that method.

 

[MobBoss]

And frankly, I don't think I would like my children to turn out like the image I have of you.

Frankly, thats simply personally insulting. I am a good father and provider to my wife and kids, married for 24 years and counting, successful in my career. I have raised my kids with personal responsibiity in mind and none of them have any issues with sex, drugs or alcohol. You would do well to have kids that would turn out as good as I did. You can definitely do worse, and just might.

The logical fallacy of your arguement is that how good a parent is ,is related to what kind of child he has to be a parent to.

Thats not a logical fallacy, but a direct result of their parenting ability (or lack thereof) and only possibly false in the extreme example you offer.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Frankly, thats simply personally insulting. I am a good father and provider to my wife and kids, married for 24 years and counting, successful in my career. You would do well to have kids that would turn out as good as I did. You can definitely do worse, and just might.(..)

Being a good father, provider, longtime husband, succesful careerwise doesn't (automatically) make you a good human being; something I want my children to be.
I do agree that I can do worse. I certainly don't agree that I just might.

But let's get back on topic. Why not answer the questions in the same post you quoted a minute part of; "what good does spanking do what other methods of disciplining can't do?" ?

 

[MobBoss]

Being a good father, provider, longtime husband, succesful careerwise doesn't (automatically) make you a good human being; something I want my children to be.

It would seem you are alleging that I am somehow not a good human being. Is that correct?

And I would think if someone desires their children to be good human beings, then they would be determined to use methods that indeed work. Spanking does work. But it can be abused, and it absolutely doesnt work in all circumstances. Its not a panacea, and it should absolutely always be something a parent never likes doing.

But let's get back on topic. Why not answer the questions in the same post you quoted a minute part of; "what good does spanking do what other methods of disciplining can't do?" ?

The simple answer is that you may have a child that will respond to spanking and simply go "pffft" at other methods of discipline.

 

[Rik Meleet]

(..)The simple answer is that you may have a child that will respond to spanking and simply go "pffft" at other methods of discipline.

IMVHO that's only a sign of lazyness and uncreativity on the parents' side with regards to correcting a child's behaviour. I won't accept the suggestion that only spanking works for some children. I am quiet sure that children who respond well to spanking also respond well to other types of disciplining and it's a matter of finding those methods. Takes education and effort and experience.
And most of all: the will to do so.

 

[EweezE]

It's used to discipline children. If you love your child, you will spank him or her early in their life so that they don't end up completely messed up and spoiled.

If you do it right, you'll only have to do it until they're about 6 or 7, and then after that you'll just get him or her to respect your requests. (of course, not nearly that simple, but that's the basic idea)

This is right. Well said.


What I don't agree with, however, is the use of weapons during the spanking. For instance, I had a black friend that told me he was spanked with a "switch" (switch = branch from a tree). His parent told him to go pick out the switch and bring it back, so he could be "switched". This adds a bit of psychological punishment, because he then has to pick the weapon that will inflict pain on himself. The more common weapon of choice for a parent, is a leather belt. Using just what God gave you though, your hand, I don't consider spanking cruel. Do it, but don't be excessive with it. After a child has received a few spankings and realizes how not fun they are, just mentioning it will solve a problem of insubordination.