Spanking children. What good does it do ?

[m4gill4]

Spanking children. What good does it do ?

Uhhh, you must not have children. Especially with young children, there isn't really much else that gets to them. "GO TO YOUR ROOM" isn't really a punishment for a 5 year old; they have fun no matter what.

 

[MobBoss]

IMVHO that's only a sign of lazyness and uncreativity on the parents' side with regards to correcting a child's behaviour.

I disagree. I view those who are adamantly against it as foolish and naive.

Its not lazy to use what is effective.

I won't accept the suggestion that only spanking works for some children.

/shrug. Some people still dont accept the world is round either.

I am quiet sure that children who respond well to spanking also respond well to other types of disciplining and it's a matter of finding those methods.

I am sure you think you know better than all the parents who have spanked their kids responsibly.......however.....once you have children, your attitude may change as you gain more experience. Or not. Still a lot of people with bratty kids who refuse to spank them too. I see them all the time here where I live.

Another point is spanking works because it has a pain response (again, not all kids actually respond to it). What other method that uses a pain response do you think will be as effective as spanking?

Takes education and effort and experience.

I have done all three, and I still advocate spanking as a method.

 

[Truronian]

I dislike it, because regardless of its effectiveness it's rather barbaric. There are other perfectly effective ways to discipline a child.

 

[MobBoss]

I dislike it, because regardless of its effectiveness it's rather barbaric. There are other perfectly effective ways to discipline a child.

Please by all means give us your qualfications and then your insight.

Say, for example, that you have a small child, not yet speaking, but continually trys to stick his finger into a power outlet.

Do you:

1. Spank him while vocally admonishing him.
2. Only vocally admonish him.
3. Let him stick his finger in to learn his lesson the hard way.

Given the gravity of the possible outcome, I am pretty sure which method I would use.

 

[Truronian]

Please give us your qualfications and then your insight.

I was hit by my stepfather when I was younger for very unreasonable things. A bad example of "effective spanking", but a good example of what bad parents can get away with thanks to the positive attitudes people have to corporal punishment for children. I have grown up around a number of children - I have three close cousins (18, 14, 10), four step-siblings (6, 4, 18 months, 1 week). The eldest two cousins were hit by my grandmother when they were bad, the youngest wasn't. Only the middle cousin misbehaves to any great degree. Certainly no correlation betwen smacking and behavior.

At any rate, my point was not that it was ineffective - I've no doubt it will get the child to behave in many circumstances - but that it is barbaric. We don't accept corporal punishment in prisons, why on earth do we accept in the home?

 

[Rik Meleet]

I disagree. I view those who are adamantly against it as foolish and naive.

Its not lazy to use what is effective.

Nor is using the most effective way automatically the best way. The most effective way to stop, as you call it, "bratty" behaviour in children is to kill the children. IMVHO opinion that's not the best way to stop it.

/shrug. Some people still dont accept the world is round either.

I'm quiet sure there are more people who think spanking children is not the best way to discipline children than there are people that don't believe the world is round. So at least the group that thinks spanking is not the way to go deserves more serious attention than the group that thinks the world isn't round. So I would appreciate it if you at least make an effort to respond seroously instead of making irrelevant off-topic one-liners.

I am sure you think you know better than all the parents who have spanked their kids responsibly.......however.....once you have children, your attitude may change as you gain more experience. Or not.

It very well might. Time will tell. And If my attitude does turn around 180degrees I will let you know.
However, your assumption that I think I know better is falsified in my posts in the thread where I try to make clear that the purpose of this thread is educate me on why spanking does good. It doesn't take much compehension-skill and reading-ability to figure that out. Unfortunately it seems I have failed in that with regard to some members' comprehension skills. I apologise for that.

Still a lot of people with bratty kids who refuse to spank them too. I see them all the time here where I live.

The opposite is true as well - spanked children who are bratty. I think it's more a matter of the child's personality and the way parents respond to that. And the ways in which a parent can respond to change behaviour in a child are many. That includes spanking, and the point of this thread is for me to learn why people who do spank their children think it is the best way to discipline a child and what the benefit is of spanking over other disciplining methods. So far I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet thus logic dictates that IMVHO spanking is not the best way to correct a child's behaviour.

Another point is spanking works because it has a pain response (again, not all kids actually respond to it). What other method that uses a pain response do you think will be as effective as spanking?

To broaden the topic - spanking to me is only the tip of the iceberg of pain inflicting as disciplining children. The broader question is "inflicting pain to children - What good does it to that other methods of discipling fail to do?". So my answer would be that no pain-inflicting method meets my standards, but a very effective way of paininflicting would be maiming, burning, acid-pouring into the eyes, electroshocks and shooting bullets in the stomach. None of these methods do I advise to use though.

I have done all three, and I still advocate spanking as a method.

Then I am very curious what non-pain inflicting methods of disciplining (in what situations) have not met your standards and why. At least - as long as you don't feel uncomfortable sharing these personal experiences online.

 

[MobBoss]

At any rate, my point was not that it was ineffective - I've no doubt it will get the child to behave in many circumstances - but that it is barbaric. We don't accept corporal punishment in prisons, why on earth do we accept in the home?

I dont know how prisons are run where you live, but in the USA non-compliant prisoners have the living crap beat out of them (i.e. they are subdued) along with litterally being bathed in pepper spray.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Say, for example, that you have a small child, not yet speaking, but continually trys to stick his finger into a power outlet.

Do you:

1. Spank him while vocally admonishing him.
2. Only vocally admonish him.
3. Let him stick his finger in to learn his lesson the hard way.

Given the gravity of the possible outcome, I am pretty sure which method I would use.

I know what method I would use.
I'd install this device that prevents children from putting their fingers in the power-outlet because you need to turn the cable in order to plug it in - something a young child physically cannot do. That even works when you can't see or spank your child.

 

[Truronian]

Please by all means give us your qualfications and then your insight.

Say, for example, that you have a small child, not yet speaking, but continually trys to stick his finger into a power outlet.

Do you:

1. Spank him while vocally admonishing him.
2. Only vocally admonish him.
3. Let him stick his finger in to learn his lesson the hard way.

Given the gravity of the possible outcome, I am pretty sure which method I would use.

Move him away from the power socket and childproof it with one of these:

Said child more than likely has a short attention span and will find something else to do.

I dont know how prisons are run where you live, but in the USA non-compliant prisoners have the living crap beat out of them (i.e. they are subdued) along with litterally being bathed in pepper spray.

Not as punishment (in theory).

 

[Gogf]

I dont know how prisons are run where you live, but in the USA non-compliant prisoners have the living crap beat out of them (i.e. they are subdued) along with litterally being bathed in pepper spray.

Okay, but the point is subduing them, not corporeally punishing them. Some pissed-off guards may just beat the crap out of them for the heck of it, but that's not the intention of the system...

And comparing a kid to a convicted felon is also a bit a stretch.

 

[Defiant47]

"what good does spanking do what other methods of disciplining can't do?" ?

Cease and permanently desist unruly behavior that can only be stopped with applied force. For a (slightly exaggerated) example, the kid starts hitting things and destroying stuff. The only way to stop him is to directly restrain him. This is a situation where anything other than spanking is irresponsible IMO.

It is simply more effective, and is used to:
1) Stress the more important lessons, such as not sticking your finger in a power socket, and
2) Establish a good baseline discipline such that you can eventually use only words to instill discipline

Basically, you teach the young kid who is too young to understand anything through simple impulses like pain, until he is mature enough to understand verbal and other punishments.

 

[Cutlass]

Sometimes you just need to get their attention.

 

[MobBoss]

Nor is using the most effective way automatically the best way. The most effective way to stop, as you call it, "bratty" behaviour in children is to kill the children. IMVHO opinion that's not the best way to stop it.

Errr. Huh? Is your only answer to this an utterly outlandish reaction? Of course the most effective way in disciplining a child is the best way. Killing a kid isnt disciplining them....its simply murder.

So I would appreciate it if you at least make an effort to respond seroously instead of making irrelevant off-topic one-liners.

Says the guy who just advocated murder as an effective method of discipline.

However, your assumption that I think I know better is falsified in my posts in the thread where I try to make clear that the purpose of this thread is educate me on why spanking does good.

If you are truly looking for education, then why are you simply dismissing all the pro-spanking arguements? If all this were about education, you would thank me for my insight and move on, instead of argueing with me about it.

It doesn't take much compehension-skill and reading-ability to figure that out. Unfortunately it seems I have failed in that with regard to some members' comprehension skills. I apologise for that.

Ah...more insults. Becoming your trademark that when discussing topics with those you dont agree with. I guess one does what one must in such discussions.

The opposite is true as well - spanked children who are bratty.

Funny, I never see too many of those.

I think it's more a matter of the child's personality and the way parents respond to that.

What do you think influences/develops a childs personality? The largest single factor? Could it be their parents? Maybe?

And the ways in which a parent can respond to change behaviour in a child are many. That includes spanking, and the point of this thread is for me to learn why people who do spank their children think it is the best way to discipline a child and what the benefit is of spanking over other disciplining methods.

Answer: it works. And if you simply continue to discount what people who spank their children say, then there isnt really any point in the thread.

So far I haven't received a satisfactory answer yet thus logic dictates that IMVHO spanking is not the best way to correct a child's behaviour.

Satisfactory answers have been given. You simply refuse to accept them.

To broaden the topic - spanking to me is only the tip of the iceberg of pain inflicting as disciplining children. The broader question is "inflicting pain to children - What good does it to that other methods of discipling fail to do?". So my answer would be that no pain-inflicting method meets my standards, but a very effective way of paininflicting would be maiming, burning, acid-pouring into the eyes, electroshocks and shooting bullets in the stomach. None of these methods do I advise to use though.

If a child isnt taught (via pain) that hot things burn, what do you think the outcome will be? The key is that we learn from pain, and that method of learning isnt all about abuse.

 

[MobBoss]

I know what method I would use.
I'd install this device that prevents children from putting their fingers in the power-outlet because you need to turn the cable in order to plug it in - something a young child physically cannot do. That even works when you can't see or spank your child.

Move him away from the power socket and childproof it with one of these:

Said child more than likely has a short attention span and will find something else to do.



Not as punishment (in theory).

I got news for you both. Kids are craftier than you give them credit for. The simple plugins are quite inadequate as a child can indeed pull them out. And a kids attention span isnt as short as you think. Once they become fascinated with something they will keep at it until they figure it out.

Bottom line: you will not be able to child proof everything. And even if you think you have...think again. I once witnessed a friends kid get over a child gate (that was supposedly impossible for her to do) and commence to climb a display case full of crystal to get at a pretty horsey on top. Needless to say it collapsed and by some miracle she didnt get cut bad, but she managed to destroy a couple thousand dollars worth of crystal. And my friend never, ever spanks his kids.

The moral of the story? Never discount how creative a kid can be and never totally rely simply on child-proofing.

 

[Truronian]

I got news for you both. Kids are craftier than you give them credit for. The simple plugins are quite inadequate as a child can indeed pull them out. And a kids attention span isnt as short as you think. Once they become fascinated with something they will keep at it until they figure it out.

The ones in my mothers house are effective enough to stop me being able to get them out. They certainly do the trick with my brother. And attention span depends on the age... it's always been easy to distract my young siblings by moving them somehwere safe with something else to do.

Bottom line: you will not be able to child proof everything. And even if you think you have...think again. I once witnessed a friends kid get over a child gate (that was supposedly impossible for her to do) and commence to climb a display case full of crystal to get at a pretty horsey on top. Needless to say it collapsed and by some miracle she didnt get cut bad, but she managed to destroy a couple thousand dollars worth of crystal. And my friend never, ever spanks his kids.

Seems the problem here is that the child wasn't being watched...

 

[Adrogans]

Simply relying on child proofing leads to all kinds of things like a very bad problem here is pool drownings. "But I had a gate and everything." yeah they will find a way if they really want to.

x-post: Yes that is the problem is people childproof then just walk away.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Errr. Huh? Is your only answer to this an utterly outlandish reaction? Of course the most effective way in disciplining a child is the best way. Killing a kid isnt disciplining them....its simply murder.

I disagree with your statement "the most effective way in disciplining a child is the best way". If you're open to someone else's opinion I'll take the effort of explaining my point of view.

Says the guy who just advocated murder as an effective method of discipline.

Do you realise how difficult it is for me to discuss with you when you simply don't understand things. Please re-read my posts and hopefully you'll see that I have not advocated murder as an effective method of discipline, but that you misunderstood an example I gave for my opinion, even when I made a remark that that isn't my opinion ?

If you are truly looking for education, then why are you simply dismissing all the pro-spanking arguements? If all this were about education, you would thank me for my insight and move on, instead of argueing with me about it.

It is not my intention to dismiss the pro-spanking arguments. It is my intention to learn why spanking is better as a discpline tool than I consider it to be and that means that I critically look and respond to pro-spanking arguments. If someone finds a pro-spanking argument that I agree with I will reconsider my position. So far Defiant47 has made an -in my eyes- valid pro-spanking argument that I am considering.

Ah...more insults. Becoming your trademark that when discussing topics with those you dont agree with. I guess one does what one must in such discussions.

It's not meant as an insult. It's a reflection of annoyance when either my statements in the thread are misunderstood -by some- or deliberately corrupted.

Funny, I never see too many of those.

Which doesn't mean they don't exist, even in your environment. This sub-topic has the danger of turning into a "Yes it is - No it isn't" discussion so there's no point in continuing on this side-track unless someone can back it up.

What do you think influences/develops a childs personality? The largest single factor? Could it be their parents? Maybe?

To some degree the parents. But the main part of a child's personality is from within. The consequences of a personality in a person (AKA his behaviour) can be guided and channeled via the surroundings which in the early stages of life is mainly the parents and siblings.

Answer: it works. And if you simply continue to discount what people who spank their children say, then there isnt really any point in the thread.

And therefore am I careful with discounting and dismissing the statements that spankers make. If you are unable to see a point to this thread, don't respond.

Satisfactory answers have been given. You simply refuse to accept them.

It's not a matter of refusing to accept them, it's a matter of critically looking at the pro-spanking arguments and discussing them. If you consider that a refusal to accept them than that's for your account. I am not so gullible.

If a child isnt taught (via pain) that hot things burn, what do you think the outcome will be? The key is that we learn from pain, and that method of learning isnt all about abuse.

I learned the painful way that the furnace in my grandparent's home was hot in winter. So, yes; pain is a way children learn. Which is not the same as to say that pain is the best way for children to learn and it certainly isn't the same as saying that spanking is the best tool for parents to use for discipline.

It might have to do with the ultimate goal of using punishment/discipline. What do you want to achieve when you decide to spank or discipline in a different way?

 

[Rik Meleet]

I got news for you both. Kids are craftier than you give them credit for. The simple plugins are quite inadequate as a child can indeed pull them out. And a kids attention span isnt as short as you think. Once they become fascinated with something they will keep at it until they figure it out.

That's why you shouldn't use simple plugins. The ones we have cannot be removed by children.

Bottom line: you will not be able to child proof everything. And even if you think you have...think again. I once witnessed a friends kid get over a child gate (that was supposedly impossible for her to do) and commence to climb a display case full of crystal to get at a pretty horsey on top. Needless to say it collapsed and by some miracle she didnt get cut bad, but she managed to destroy a couple thousand dollars worth of crystal. And my friend never, ever spanks his kids.

't Is true - 100% childproofing is not realistic. One needs to watch the children as well and keep thinking.

The moral of the story? Never discount how creative a kid can be and never totally rely simply on child-proofing.

True.
And also never rely simply on pain-inflicting or other types of disciplining or a combination of methods of disciplining for guaranteeing your child won't do what you don't want him to do. If I understood your remark "Given the gravity of the possible outcome, I am pretty sure which method I would use" correctly is the method of your choice relying on a combination of disciplining with pain-inflicting. If I am incorrect in that, please correct me.

 

[MobBoss]

Seems the problem here is that the child wasn't being watched...

When you become a parent you will realize you simply cannot watch your child 24/7. One of the reasons you need to teach them right from wrong.

 

[Luckymoose]

Hitting a child is the only way to teach it that it is not the boss. Same goes for a dog and woman.