Spanking children. What good does it do ?

[Elrohir]

I definitley understand the shame and dissapointment factor. And if this is present, why not just let the kid wallow in his shame and his parent's dissapointment? That ought to be enough. The kid already feels bad, why rub it in?

Some children are mature enough to do that at a young age. Some aren't for a very long time. Spanking is something that shouldn't happen often, and is seen as something of an extreme - it's an expressionof the parent's disappointment that even a child can understand. Getting spanked is a lot more effective for most four year olds than "Daddy doesn't like what you just did." If you can find a more effective way of doing this, then feel free - but I think this works pretty well, and when done properly, is certainly not abusive at all.

 

[Narz]

Because some kids can simply be told by a parent about their disappointment and it does work, some kids it doesn't.

Kids understand consequences. Break a lamp, no light after sundown for a day (they'll remember that if they like to do stuff at night). Spanking is the last resort of an uncreative parents (and unlikely to convey any lesson except don't get caught).

Reasoning? Not sure what that means. Is that explaining why it's bad? I could see how that works. My parents did that to me (if you don't put your Legos back, people could step on them and get hurt!), and it worked.

Exactly. The spankers & spank apologists deny children are capable of reasoning & then wonder why there kids don't listen & they "have to" spank them.

If you must resort to physical abuse, better to (in that situation) make the kids walk barefoot across a sea of legos, at least they'll learn something from that & understand on a visceral level why that specific action is wrong (rather than the abstract - "this is bad cause daddy says it's bad & smacks my ass hard when I do it").

5. Tell your child how you'd like them to behave in a given situation (fight with sister, upset when Mom says "no") and then practice it in a pretend situation. Praise and reward with love and hugs. Perhaps even reward with small trinkets.Wow. This is the way to spoil a child. Reward with trinkets? WTH! No! No! NOOOOO! This child psychologist is an idiot. You shouldn't reward a child for doing what he's supposed to do. Even now if my parents say thanks, I just tell them I did what I was supposed to do....

I have to agree with Gooblah here (on the trinket point). It is impossible (IMO) to spoil a child with too much love & affection but rewarding them for every tiny little thing done right (especially with trinkets) will condition them to always want a reward and not do the right thing just to do it (or to understand why it is right, they'll just want the reward).

Love should be unconditional (even when giving appropriate consequences to the child for his/her behavior you should remind the kid you love him/her) and hugs & affection should be abudent. But hugs & touch shouln't be used as some sort of "good boy/girl" currency to be doled out only when the kid is "good".

 

[Arwon]

A sea of legos? Is Lego a collective noun or not? I'd have said "A sea of Lego"

 

[Narz]

Some children are mature enough to do that at a young age. Some aren't for a very long time. Spanking is something that shouldn't happen often, and is seen as something of an extreme - it's an expressionof the parent's disappointment that even a child can understand. Getting spanked is a lot more effective for most four year olds than "Daddy doesn't like what you just did." If you can find a more effective way of doing this, then feel free - but I think this works pretty well, and when done properly, is certainly not abusive at all.

Like I've been saying, try to think of a way to let the kid feel the impact of what he just did wrong. If he just broke something of yours that's irreplaceable, take away one of his favorite toys so he understands (you don't have to keep it forever, give it back when he's internalized the lesson but don't tell him in advance you'll be giving it back). Stuff like this will probably produce multiple lessons even beyond what you may intend (like not being too attached to objects for this world is full of imperminance).

 

[Narz]

A sea of legos? Is Lego a collective noun or not? I'd have said "A sea of Lego"

I'm pretty sure lego plural is legos.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Rik, here's the thing: people are different, which means broad guidelines about how people react and how their brains work often aren't accurate.

No objection from my side.

1-2. I was never screamed at while being spanked. I can see how that might not send the right message, but you don't need to scream to spank.

Agreed. I think the "and/" part of "Screaming and/or hitting your kids" is a bit superfluous and misleading.

It was always explained to me why I was being punished beforehand. And I would disagree that spanking doesn't change behavior - if I got spanked for telling my mom "NO!" when she told me to do chores, the next time she told me to do chores, either I went and did them, or I had a reasonable excuse which I then explained to her. I didn't try the "You're not the boss of me!" trick again, because it was quite clear that my parents were the boss of me.

If you were my child and you maneuvered yourself into a position where some parents would spank I would also discipline you. For instance: not doing your chores could result in me not doing my chores for you. (read: cooking).

3-4. Depends on the person. But that's definitely not true in all cases.

Possibly not in all cases, but when used consistently and correctly I think it will hold true for the vast majority of cases.

5. That can work, but I don't it's more effective than spanking, especially by itself. I may want to do the right thing because mommy loves me, but I will do the right thing if I'm afraid I'll get punished. I may, or may not, if there's no possible punishment for breaking the rules.

I think this guideline is meant for situations where the child doesn't understand fully why you want his behaviour changed. And you offer your child a way to accomplish his goal without maneuvering himself into a punishment situation.

Look man: maybe spanking doesn't work with your kids, and that's fine. I'm not saying it's the right answer for everyone, in every situation. (And to be clear, I was spanked very rarely - maybe a few times a year, at the most. And the spankings themselves actually didn't hurt that much, what was worse was the feeling of shame that came with knowing my parents were so disappointed in me) But it does work for a lot of people, in a lot of situations, so you should be careful about what you say, because it may not be accurate.

For the record - I have no children.
I am willing to accept, as you state, that spanking works for a lot of people. But I don't accept spanking as the best way to achieve the goals (changing the childs behaviour) and I do think there are negatives attached to spanking that do not show immediately and that other discipline-methods do not have.

I am careful about what I say. That's the whole point of starting this thread - I want to learn what good spanking does since I am unable to spot it.

We've had this debate before. And it pretty much everytime goes down like this: 95% of the people who were spanked as children say it's good, and plan to do it themselves. 5% of the people who were spanked, and 95% of the people who weren't paint spanking as utterly barbaric and criminal. The spankers laugh at this. And then there are 20 pages of people arguing, in effect, these same points all over again.

That's not the point of this thread. I started an open thread with the focus on "please teach my why spanking is good since I don't see it" and not as a "I am better than you because I like/dislike spanking children"

 

[Gogf]

It's always amazing how the people that were spanked feel some sort of compulsion to defend the practice. I guess that's how it gets perpetuated.

 

[mrt144]

i'd rather punish my children by forcing them to complete tasks i dislike such as washing the dishes or dusting the furniture.

 

[Arwon]

I'm pretty sure lego plural is legos.

Yeah but you're a foreigner. Maybe it's a dialect difference. I feel the need for a poll.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Clearly no parents here.

Some kids never need a spanking. Some kids do. As above, the window where a swat on the bottom is appropriate is small: from the "terrible twos" to about 5 or 6. After that they are old enough to understand more abstract punishments.

My son needed a swat about every three months or so, almost like clockwork. He would push the limits to see what he could get away with. A quick swat that did him no harm at all reminded him where the boundaries were. I probably could count on one hand all his "spankings." There would have been even fewer, but when he visited his mother she would be inconsistent and psycho, so he would get confused.

I fully accept that there are children that maneuver themselves into a situation where punishment/discipline is needed. Your son apparently every 3 months.
I do not accept that spanking is the correct way to punish/discipline.

I have heard of friends of my parents who had a child that once in a while could get outraged, went berserk, whatever you can call it where there is absolutely no more room for words and deeds are required, and his parents "solved" it by forcing him under the ice-cold shower for a small period of time while holidng him in place there. It did break his behaviour.

Now I am not stating that this way of disciplining is better or worse than spanking, I am however stating that there are other ways.

Your remark about his mother being inconsistent (ignoring the word psycho) I think is important as children who are not treated consistently get confused on the issues what they are supposed and allowed to do and what not.
But being consistent in your behaviour towards children is a whole different topic.

 

[Adrogans]

That's not the point of this thread. I started an open thread with the focus on "please teach my why spanking is good since I don't see it" and not as a "I am better than you because I like/dislike spanking children"

Admirable, but I just don't see that happening.

I think it worked on me and all my friends as a rare punishment for when we were really out of line or too emotional to listen to what anyone was saying. It gets attention and cuts off the emotion with the shock of "Holy crap my parent just spanked me" then you have the attention to discuss the issue. But usually I was never that emotional so a few times a year was all I got spanked.

EDIT - X post, And yes I agree consistency is the key.

 

[Arwon]

I suppose if you want to get your child accustomed to arbitrary, capricious authority, hitting them is one way to do it.

 

[Elrohir]

Like I've been saying, try to think of a way to let the kid feel the impact of what he just did wrong. If he just broke something of yours that's irreplaceable, take away one of his favorite toys so he understands (you don't have to keep it forever, give it back when he's internalized the lesson but don't tell him in advance you'll be giving it back). Stuff like this will probably produce multiple lessons even beyond what you may intend (like not being too attached to objects for this world is full of imperminance).

Fine with me. I didn't say spanking was the only way to discipline a child. Far from it - it's more of a last resort.

For the record - I have no children.
I am willing to accept, as you state, that spanking works for a lot of people. But I don't accept spanking as the best way to achieve the goals (changing the childs behaviour) and I do think there are negatives attached to spanking that do not show immediately and that other discipline-methods do not have.

What better way would you suggest? As I said above, I think spanking is sort of a last resort, after more milder punishments. Do you have a better, more effective, more clear punishment that serves as the Thing You Don't Want to Happen? And this is for children, remember - they need to be able to understand it.

And what negatives, exactly, are you talking about?

I am careful about what I say. That's the whole point of starting this thread - I want to learn what good spanking does since I am unable to spot it.

That's not the point of this thread. I started an open thread with the focus on "please teach my why spanking is good since I don't see it" and not as a "I am better than you because I like/dislike spanking children"

I know. I wasn't really accusing you in particular, I was just commenting on where I expect this thread will go.

And the answer to your question is quite simple: Spanking is "good" because it's a very effective, very traditional form of discipline that works for many, many people. And honestly, I think we need that kind of discipline more, not less. I see parents with undisciplined kids every day, and it bugs me, because I can tell that they aren't doing their jobs properly. Maybe that doesn't always include spanking, but I definitely do think that today's kids are, on the whole, very under disciplined and under punished. And I don't think the best way to combat that is to take away a very vital tool from parents.

I suppose if you want to get your child accustomed to arbitrary, capricious authority, hitting them is one way to do it.

This is why these threads usually suck. People thinking they know what's really happening, when they really don't. (Coupled with a snobby condescension that's rather irritating)

 

[Arwon]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cruelty to children, I just think there needs to be some creativity about it. Anyone can belt a tiny human, they're so weak and fragile after all. However, psychological torture takes effort. Why hit them when you can buy them several puppies and then stab them or threaten to slit their throats if the kid doesn't behave?

"eat your veggies and he dies a quick death! You don't want him to suffer do you?"

 

[IglooDame]

Well you have not provided many reasons on How is it not other than a comparison with some other things. Now let's see. The Prostate exam could be considered sexual abuse if it was not done for health reasons. It is necessary. Because it is done for health reasons it gets a free pass. Also the doctor does not do it to impose his will to you , or as a symbol of punishment. If you sexually abuse someone to discipline them into obeying you then you don't get such a free pass. Because it is done from one Human to an other so he can impose his will on him or punish him. It is sexual in nature and it is abuse. Whether you think sexual abuse is effective that is an other matter but i believe by definition is neither effective not humane.

So to summarize, you consider spanking as sexual abuse because #1 it is not done for health reasons, #2 it is done to impose someone's will on another, and/or #3 it is a symbol of punishment.

#1 - Parents that do it, logically consider it necessary. I've never met a parent that spanked their children despite considering it unnecessary.

#2 - Police arresting someone and putting them in handcuffs is now sexual abuse? Or is it "necessary"?

#3 - Prison terms for convicts is now sexual abuse? Or is that too "necessary"?

Changing diapers is not even a sexual abuse so it does not even have to get a free pass.

It is not sexual abuse, glad we agree. Why is it not? Diapers and 'scat play' is a fetish with some people, just like spanking is.

 

[Elrohir]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for cruelty to children, I just think there needs to be some creativity about it. Anyone can belt a tiny human, they're so weak and fragile after all. However, psychological torture takes effort. Why hit them when you can buy them several puppies and then stab them or threaten to slit their throats if the kid doesn't behave?

"eat your veggies and he dies a quick death! You don't want him to suffer do you?"

Stop trolling. You suck at it.

 

[aelf]

How can you not have both a carrot and stick approach? Wouldn't it be better to not spare the rod but be reasonable about it?

 

[IglooDame]

If you were my child and you maneuvered yourself into a position where some parents would spank I would also discipline you. For instance: not doing your chores could result in me not doing my chores for you. (read: cooking).

I have heard of friends of my parents who had a child that once in a while could get outraged, went berserk, whatever you can call it where there is absolutely no more room for words and deeds are required, and his parents "solved" it by forcing him under the ice-cold shower for a small period of time while holidng him in place there. It did break his behaviour.

Now I am not stating that this way of disciplining is better or worse than spanking, I am however stating that there are other ways.

Apologies for the narrow quoting, but what's left is the crux of my feedback. I am not sure what "not cooking" entails, but assuming it's equivalent to "going to bed without dinner" I wonder if that and/or putting the child into a cold shower are better, worse, or the same as spanking. The latter, in particular, strikes me probably in the same way that spanking strikes some of you - unsettlingly cruel. I'm going to have to mull this one a bit.

 

[Marsden]

I have heard of friends of my parents who had a child that once in a while could get outraged, went berserk, whatever you can call it where there is absolutely no more room for words and deeds are required, and his parents "solved" it by forcing him under the ice-cold shower for a small period of time while holidng him in place there. It did break his behaviour.

That's waterboarding, isn't it?

 

[MobBoss]

I am confused as I see no benefit in spanking children and I see the dangers of if.

Do you have kids? Were you spanked as a kid?

As child behaviour expert Alan E. Kazdin points out on the strategy on disciplining children in a way that gets them to lessen or even stop the behaviour that you want changed:

I will simply say that not all child behavior experts agree on this.

So must I draw the conclusion that spanking children is not to change their behaviour, but as punishment only? Or is there more to it?

Punishments are used as a method to change behavior. Rewards can be used in much the same way. Not all kids respond the same to either punishments or rewards; or in turn, may respond quite differently to various punishments/rewards.

Please don't hold back and post your opinions on why spanking children is beneficial (and to who).

As both a parent, and as someone who was spanked as a child, I can positively say that it does indeed change ones behavior. I was even spanked in public school and see no problem with that either. It had its desired effect upon me at least.