[Speculation] Reintroducing Mali and the Zulus

The whole picking of Shongai over Mali was a mistake that really showed Civ V's poor knowdegle of history, me thinks, but now the damage is done and it could hardly be reversed :/

Also, another quite awesome, yet very unlikely choice would be the wondrous kingdom of Aksum. Massive trading networks connecting with China and India, lots of cultural influence, one of the longest lived African empires (spanning for almost 8 centuries), hell they even got a relevant female leader, the fabled Queen of Sabba. The only problem is that they occupied the territory belonging to Ethiopia, which rules them out, I think, not to mention that by the time the European colonial powers begun the scramble for Africa, the kingdom of Aksum was long gone. But I hope that someday they will be introduced! :D

The civ series essentially lumps Aksum and Ethiopia into the same civ, hence the stele UU and Aksum as the capital in Civ IV. Also, Songhai over Mali was not necessarily a mistake. The three big empires of that area (so also Ghana) were all significant in their own ways.
 
I dont think we will see Mali, they share too many cities with Songhai (Tho I would have liked to see Mansa Musa instead of Askia).

Zulu is a garantee, I would be surprised if they didnt make it, they are a must in Civ.
 
Don't count on the Zulu showing up, like Denmark and the Vikings, Firaxis has shown that maybe they will consider another Civ from the area than simply following tradition (though that being said it will be most likely in the game)

How much do you want to bet the Zulus are in? How much money you got? :lol:

I see your point, but in the case of the Zulu, tradition should not be disregarded. When your playing a game and the Zulu end up next door. Well, the first thing that flashes in your mind is...I am in for it. See it is about the fear the Zulu legend has brought. It is their gift to mankind. They are intimidating, which makes them a worthwhile opponent. In Civilization V we should all be able to experience that. Not only that, but I want to see how Shaka deals with the likes of Alex and Monty. :D
 
How much do you want to bet the Zulus are in? How much money you got? :lol:

I see your point, but in the case of the Zulu, tradition should not be disregarded. When your playing a game and the Zulu end up next door. Well, the first thing that flashes in your mind is...I am in for it. See it is about the fear the Zulu legend has brought. It is their gift to mankind. They are intimidating, which makes them a worthwhile opponent. In Civilization V we should all be able to experience that. Not only that, but I want to see how Shaka deals with the likes of Alex and Monty. :D

You make a good argument for inclusion of the Boar. ;) I agree Zulu is pretty much a "gotta have" Civ. Who doesn't like to reenact this:
 
I think the Zulu could be fun to play, which is the predominant reason I think they'll be in. I just hope they get at least one more African civ as well either on the Slave/Gold/Ivory coast or Kongo.
 
Honestly I got sick of the Zulu in Civ IV (they're one of those always-runaways) and wasn't looking forward to their inevitable inclusion in G&K (and was pleasantly surprised when the mystery ninth civ turned out to be Sweden)... but after all this time, I miss them! I want to see Shaka shaking his spear at me as he declares war.
 
My whish list:

1. Kongo , no explaination needed

2. Swahili/Kilwa sultanate/Zanzibar would fit a trade focus well, it was a lot like the Hanseatic League but in east Africa, and Swahili is the biggest bantu language

3. Afshanti Empire or Benin or Dahomey. An other West African civ is needed becsse of the regions importance

4. An north african desert civ, the Tuaregs have a very distinctive culture and could have nice synergy with camel caravans, but Kanem Bornu or Almohavids/Berber would also work
 
Personally I'm hoping brave new world means they finally introduce Canada and other civs that are more modern.

A lot of the additions seem to be focused on making the "late" game more interesting, since right now late game is mostly about taking your midgame into a snowball win. I'm imagining that a lot of the new civs are going to be late bloomers so to speak.
 
Don't count on the Zulu showing up, like Denmark and the Vikings, Firaxis has shown that maybe they will consider another Civ from the area than simply following tradition (though that being said it will be most likely in the game)

In contrast to the Vikings, the Zulus are the traditional civ for Civ (odd as that may sound) - they've been the representative of sub-Saharan Africa for the first three civ games (even if undeservedly so, given all the other great African civs), and they and their evil warmongering madman warlord Shaka are iconic to fans of the series.

Anyhow, I posted this in the other thread, but I suppose it's relevant here:

Kongo seems like a plausible choice, given that it's been floating around the community for a while, its relative power and influence in central Africa during the early modern era, and the fact that "Kongo" is a recognizable word to the average person (not the best reason, but still).

The Swahili would also be an interesting addition in my opinion, given that they fit well into the theme of trade routes, though the only drawback would be that similarly to Italy they do take up quite a number of potential city-states.

Nubia would be a great addition in my opinion, as it wasn't merely a southern clone of Egypt, but I see it as unlikely as it wouldn't really work in a Scramble for Africa scenario.

The Berbers are my personal favorite pick for an African civ after the Zulus, as they have a unique culture and history distinct from that of the Arabs, not to mention there is really a lot of things they could specialize in (maybe religious tolerance of some sort harking to the Moorish years, or the high level of learning as well, or maybe some sort of Barbary Pirates thing, or perhaps a focus on the Saharan trade routes - there's a lot of possibilities), not to mention they could have a female leader (Kahina). Unfortunately for the average person they'd be too similar to Arab so I suppose their inclusion is unlikely.

Benin is another possibility, though I don't have to say much on them, other than perhaps having the Dahomey Amazons as a UU would be cool.

The Hausa would be interesting, in my opinion, as they are often overlooked despite their prominence in West African trade routes and so forth, but unfortunately I think they might be seen as too similar to Songhai.

Kanem-Bornu would be in a similar situation to the Hausa.

The Maasai might be possible too, given that they're pretty well known to the average person, though I think it'd be a questionable choice given that they did not develop the sort of urbanized societies the "civilizations" in Civ represent.

There's also Zimbabwe, which I think qualifies more as a civ (with a traditional definition of that) compared to the Zulus. Still, there's too much overlap with the Zulus, so it's either Zulus or Zimbabwes, and the former is almost certain.

There's also some of the other West African coastal groups, like the Ashanti and Yoruba, who played an important role in the Atlantic slave trade - unfortunately this might be too controversial an issue to have these civs capitalize on (imagine a civ with an "enslave and sell slaves to European other civs" UA).

Let's see... well, that's all I can think of within the realm of possibility. There's others like some of the more developed states in Angola and the Kenyan/Tanzanian highlands but they aren't as well-known.

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Personally, though, I want the Berbers, because I think they're really cool and awesome and all that. But probably won't make it, as they're seen as too similar to the Arabs.
 
My whish list:

1. Kongo , no explaination needed

2. Swahili/Kilwa sultanate/Zanzibar would fit a trade focus well, it was a lot like the Hanseatic League but in east Africa, and Swahili is the biggest bantu language

3. Afshanti Empire or Benin or Dahomey. An other West African civ is needed becsse of the regions importance

4. An north african desert civ, the Tuaregs have a very distinctive culture and could have nice synergy with camel caravans, but Kanem Bornu or Almohavids/Berber would also work

I like your ideas :goodjob:
 
Nah! Give me the Zulus easier to pronounce. :lol: Nubia too, why not?
 
With Brave New World being focused outside of Europe comes a chance of reintroducing two African powers.

The Zulus have since Civ1 been a classic power to play as. The return of the Zulus will be grand, especilly for the Scramble for Africa scenario.

Mali was among my favourites and my father's most played civ in Civilization IV. It would be intresting to see them return, especilly with the trade enchancements.

So what will the UUs, UBs and UAs if they return to the Civilization series?

Moderator Action: Adjusted the thread title.

Completely disagree that the Zulus were "classic power to play as". Just because they were in previous versions, does not mean that have to be in this version as a core civ. Either make them a unique civ to play in the scenario (where it would fit) or make them a DLC.
 
Zulu is almost guarantee, Mali not so much. Since everybody else is putting in there two cents on which African civs they'd like to see, I'll throw my hat in for a Kanem civ and maybe Zanzibar. Zanzibar has the fact that it's a fairly well heard of civ and Kanem (lake chad region) would give a nice central African civ to fill in a part of the world that's hardly represented in anything.
 
I think the Zulu are obvious. I don't want to see Mali again. I'd rather have the Ashanti. I think Great Zimbabwe would be a good city-state because they left good ruins but we know nothing about them, much like Cahokia.
 
Zulus are virtually guaranteed to be in, and I would be extremely surprised if they weren't included in some way. 1) they're a Civ staple that has been noticeably absent, 2) there is an African colonial scenario, 3) the Zulus were/are a prominent kingdom and ethnic group in South Africa.
 
I will be really surprised if the Zulu are not in. In no way the Mali will make the cut though.

On the Impi note, it could conceivably break the mold and be a pike replacement. I know it was a spear replacement in every game so far it's just there's so many spear UUs in CiV and only the landschneckt for pikes. It wouldn't be that far-fetched.
 
I wonder does BNW include Ethiopia for the use in Africa scenario? They did it with Spain, remember.

Also I'd like them to use Askia's leaderscreen for a scenario-only Mahdi of Sudan!
UU: Dervish
UB: Mahdi's Tomb

and William's leaderscreen for Louis Botha of Boers
UU: Boer Kommando
UU2: Pom-Pom Cannon

The list for civs (real ones and scenario-only) in Africa scenario might be big, anyone of these might be in as a civ or a CS:
England
France
Italy
Portugal
Spain
Germany
Zulu
Kongo
Ashanti
Ethiopia
Boer Republic
The Rif
...
 
Don't count on the Zulu showing up, like Denmark and the Vikings, Firaxis has shown that maybe they will consider another Civ from the area than simply following tradition (though that being said it will be most likely in the game)

I think you forget the Vikings weren't in Civ 3. They were simply the "Scandinavians." They also weren't in Civ 1. You can't really compare the Zulu who have been the Zulu in every civ prior, to the Vikings who were actually only in Civ 2 and 4.
 
In addition, while the Zulu's relevance to the bulk of African or world history is a bit debatable, they are quite relevant to the grab for Africa. I think they almost certainly will appear in a scenario, which means we'll probably see them in the main game.
 
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