Stability Bitmaps

[Pavel Chichikov]

Yellow is basically Historical territory for your civ except that it happens to be in a foreign core.

So yes, Paris is historical for Rome, being Yellow.

Yes, Rome should get England as Contested as well.

And for the love of God, we don't need Yellow for the Dutch and Portuguese in Japan.
I don't think the presence of Dejima justifies pretty much what is represented as an occupation of what looks like ALL of Kyushu.
I can say the same for Portuguese Historical tiles for what I'm assuming is Macau.
The number of tiles they get look like practically all of Guangdong Province.

Asian Christianity UHV's for Holland and Portugal!

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Asian Christianity UHV's for Holland and Portugal!

That would make sense, if we didn't set the precedence that religion does not equal territorial control.

If you recall, Arabia had the Philippines as Historical territory in vanilla RFC because of Islam.
And it was taken out in DoC because it didn't make any sense.
I don't see the need for Portugal to have any more than one tile (to represent Macau) in China
(ESPECIALLY when Rome only gets one tile in Britain [London]) and no tiles in Japan.
There shouldn't be so many double-standards like this in the stability maps, honestly.

 

[Stazro]

HRE's core needs a makeover, now that Poland is in the game. Notably Krakow sits on core.

 

[youtien]

I suggest remove all 'historical area' and rename it 'local area'. Any area besides core area counts as foreign area at first, and become local area(light green) as city culture & pop grows while your culture outnumbers others.

 

[Leoreth]

I suggest remove all 'historical area' and rename it 'local area'. Any area besides core area counts as foreign area at first, and become local area(light green) as city culture & pop grows while your culture outnumbers others.

That's equivalent to throwing expansion stability out of the window entirely.

 

[civ_king]

Yellow is basically Historical territory for your civ except that it happens to be in a foreign core.

So yes, Paris is historical for Rome, being Yellow.

Yes, Rome should get England as Contested as well.

And for the love of God, we don't need Yellow for the Dutch and Portuguese in Japan.
I don't think the presence of Dejima justifies pretty much what is represented as an occupation of what looks like ALL of Kyushu.
I can say the same for Portuguese Historical tiles for what I'm assuming is Macau.
The number of tiles they get look like practically all of Guangdong Province.

Well, the Portuguese founded Nagasaki as a city so some area is legitimate (normally the Portuguese get a 3x3(ish) block centered on the historical tile if it is just one

 

[eel]

That would make sense, if we didn't set the precedence that religion does not equal territorial control.

If you recall, Arabia had the Philippines as Historical territory in vanilla RFC because of Islam.
And it was taken out in DoC because it didn't make any sense.
I don't see the need for Portugal to have any more than one tile (to represent Macau) in China
(ESPECIALLY when Rome only gets one tile in Britain [London]) and no tiles in Japan.
There shouldn't be so many double-standards like this in the stability maps, honestly.

Well it still doesn't make any sense because Arabia still has most of S/SE Asia as historical/contested.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Well, the Portuguese founded Nagasaki as a city so some area is legitimate (normally the Portuguese get a 3x3(ish) block centered on the historical tile if it is just one

That is true to an extent. A village existed there before the Portuguese were able to get permission to expand on the site.
But I have to admit that warrants some right to the land. However, my issue is that at the current time, Nagasaki+Dejima is represented as all of Kyushu.
Mostly due to size constraints, as in the case of Macau, Portuguese stability there is represented as all of Guangdong Province and then some.
If Rome is only going to get one tile (to represent Londinium), then I don't see why Portugal should get any more than one tile to represent Macau & Nagasaki.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

That is true to an extent. A village existed there before the Portuguese were able to get permission to expand on the site.
But I have to admit that warrants some right to the land. However, my issue is that at the current time, Nagasaki+Dejima is represented as all of Kyushu.
Mostly due to size constraints, as in the case of Macau, Portuguese stability there is represented as all of Guangdong Province and then some.
If Rome is only going to get one tile (to represent Londinium), then I don't see why Portugal should get any more than one tile to represent Macau & Nagasaki.

Because you can't guarantee that this tile actually has a city on it to take over. The Portuguese didn't massacre the innocent inhabitants of Guangzhou in order to set up Macau, but that's what you'd have to do if you make it one square. In fact, because of the city spacing requirements, you'd potentially end up having to burn Amoy or Changsha or something. So long as there's only enough tiles to found one city, it works perfectly the way it is.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Because you can't guarantee that this tile actually has a city on it to take over. The Portuguese didn't massacre the innocent inhabitants of Guangzhou in order to set up Macau, but that's what you'd have to do if you make it one square. In fact, because of the city spacing requirements, you'd potentially end up having to burn Amoy or Changsha or something. So long as there's only enough tiles to found one city, it works perfectly the way it is.

It makes more sense when you put it that way (Trading Company looking for cities on those tiles),
but if that's the case, I think 3 tiles should be enough for Portugal in southern China, not 5, as it currently is.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Culture on Foreign/Foreign Core tiles decrease your Stability, regardless of what kind of tile the city who generated the Culture is on (it can be a Core city for all that matters).

For example, if you're Russia/China, and your St. Petersburg/Beijing's Culture is high enough to cover Danzig/Karakorum, you get punished for that. This is the one mechanism I detest most in DoC, because it encourages the same kind of mentality that drove Mao to initiate Cultural Revolution, namely that sometimes our own Culture is bad and we need to get rid of it.

This is why there needs to be a ring of Contested tiles around Macau/Nagasaki for Portugal.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Culture on Foreign/Foreign Core tiles decrease your Stability, regardless of what kind of tile the city who generated the Culture is on (it can be a Core city for all that matters).

For example, if you're Russia/China, and your St. Petersburg/Beijing's Culture is high enough to cover Danzig/Karakorum, you get punished for that. This is the one mechanism I detest most in DoC, because it encourages the same kind of mentality that drove Mao to initiate Cultural Revolution, namely that sometimes our own Culture is bad and we need to get rid of it.

This is why there needs to be a ring of Contested tiles around Macau/Nagasaki for Portugal.

I think that is more of a comment on the deficiencies of the Culture system rather than the amount of tiles a civilization should get to represent small historical holdings.
As modeled by this Earth map, some things (like my aforementioned Kyushu+Guangdong gripe) are absolutely absurd.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

I think that is more of a comment on the deficiencies of the Culture system rather than the amount of tiles a civilization should get to represent small historical holdings.
As modeled by this Earth map, some things (like my aforementioned Kyushu+Guangdong gripe) are absolutely absurd.

K-Mod reconstructs the culture system, and might be able to deal with some of these problems. If I understand it correctly, it weights culture production towards buildings and away from population, so you have a lot more control over where you produce culture.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Giving a Civ a 1-tile (or any less than 7, really) pocked of historical area anywhere is just dumb.
What's the point of having a Macau when you lose massive foreign-core stability just to have to city use adjective tiles?


Korea stability. Why u so small?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yanbian_Korean_Autonomous_Prefecture

Spoiler :

 

[Leoreth]

The reason is
a) settler map = stability map and I don't want Korea to settle so far outside.
b) Korea should be able to collapse which just doesn't happen if every tile they control is historical.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

I understand your argument, but:

a) Much of the territory north of the Penisula is marsh so gives a stability hit regard-less.
b) Korea has plenty of challenges already without instability, with 2-3 irreproachably hostile and powerful neighbors, unusable UU, and the stronger barbs.

Though I warn in advance are dealing with a Koreaphile.
Btw, I know you get tired of the constant suggestions but a lot of us here just have to put in our pov.

 

[Leoreth]

The suggestions don't tire me; and the post definitely wasn't meant to imply that. I just answered your question by giving my rationale for the current stability map.

 

[phoenix_sprite]

I know you're not supposed to bump but... I need this on the first page!

 

[Zaduzai]

I know you're not supposed to bump but... I need this on the first page!

I checked Rome map and I had forgot three very very important light green tile

Spoiler :

Those South America tiles going to be very important when eternal Roman Empire controls all four major continent.

 

[clark k]

also, could someone post some stability bitmaps for the newer civs?