cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
Don't abandon the good 'ol US of A! Why not try to make a difference? Vote for the always-planning, ever watchful, Democrats! You can't lose with them, you got...Kerry...and uh....Tipper!
j/k
State of the Union - as it happens
- Thread starter Richard III
- Start date
Don't abandon the good 'ol US of A! Why not try to make a difference? Vote for the always-planning, ever watchful, Democrats! You can't lose with them, you got...Kerry...and uh....Tipper!
j/k
Archer 007
Rebirth
I personally am a Baptist, but i'd like to weight in on cloning. I personally am against human cloning, but am in favor of animal cloning. Why do you ask? Well. God said that we have domenion over the animals. So i think that would include cloning. It could help to help the hunger problem.
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
You don't think we got enough pigs?
Animal and human cloning and genetic modification of food plants represent science at its worst, in the way religious authorities have often feared and hated it. Man gets knowledge of how to do a thing before he has the wisdom to know whether it is a good thing to do. Factor in profit motive and there you are.
Only God can give life- or at least till the Raelians figure it out. As science continues to rape the frontiers of the divine, maybe we'll come to regret that Galileo wasn't burnt at the stake a little earlier in his career. From the atomic bomb to the partial birth abortion (and I know there are "people" out there who think the latter is somehow worse than the former!) to the Big Mouth Billy Bass, science has a lot to answer for.
But then so does religion...
@Gannon: I wish it were as easy as putting my faith in the democrats. But their souls are mostly blackened by the same petty desires as the repubs. That is why they are weak and no other reason - had they the cajones to stand up against Bush in December 2000, September 2001, or anytime in the past six months, I think you'd see a lot more support for them. Whatever polls you choose to believe, a lot of people are at their wits end with this administration and a lot who would vote democrat are disgusted with democrat leadership for capitulating to Bush again and again. Me too.
Animal and human cloning and genetic modification of food plants represent science at its worst, in the way religious authorities have often feared and hated it. Man gets knowledge of how to do a thing before he has the wisdom to know whether it is a good thing to do. Factor in profit motive and there you are.
Only God can give life- or at least till the Raelians figure it out. As science continues to rape the frontiers of the divine, maybe we'll come to regret that Galileo wasn't burnt at the stake a little earlier in his career. From the atomic bomb to the partial birth abortion (and I know there are "people" out there who think the latter is somehow worse than the former!) to the Big Mouth Billy Bass, science has a lot to answer for.
But then so does religion...
@Gannon: I wish it were as easy as putting my faith in the democrats. But their souls are mostly blackened by the same petty desires as the repubs. That is why they are weak and no other reason - had they the cajones to stand up against Bush in December 2000, September 2001, or anytime in the past six months, I think you'd see a lot more support for them. Whatever polls you choose to believe, a lot of people are at their wits end with this administration and a lot who would vote democrat are disgusted with democrat leadership for capitulating to Bush again and again. Me too.
newfangle
hates you.
Hmmm, I'll have to disagree on the cloning. Giving man's current (horrid) state of expansion and resource sonsumption, mass cloning may be our only viable option for a *cough* sustainable future.
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
What, so everyone can have two kids and two clones? How is that sustainable? You can't clone a rainforest. And cloned beef tastes terrible. (Although cloned beef on rye is passable fare).
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
I agree. Republicans (or at least Bush Republicans) have fatal errors in certain aspects of their policies that are very bad. But, Democrats are seeming more and more to be anti-Republicans and nothing else. They lack a plan, and mainly get their ideas by disagreeing with Bush's. Both parties suck, to put it bluntly.
Couldn't of summed it up better. When man's mind races faster than man's heart, you get loads of problems. I pose the question: would unregulated cloning be a good thing? Would independent groups - hell, would Raelians - being the first to clone be a good thing? Most certainly not. Most certainly not.
back in this thread because i feel the need to argue...even though we all seem to agree on this page
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
No the problem isn't they just go anti-Bush (that is clever propaganda from the right), it is that they basically agree with him on too many things. They are in a real bind because Bush has cornered the market on patriotism, fighting terror, and deposing dictators. You immediately have to preface your criticisms with "we stand behind the president on..." blah blah blah, which translates to me as, "okay, well, I guess we don't need a different president then".
The unobservant right wingers might suppose the left is ranting and raving against Bush and that's what turned America off but nothing could be further from the truth. A good rant, a strong challenge, a firm "Mr. Bush is not protecting you or your interests" or "Iraq is a pissant country at our disposal when we please, Mr. Bush is distracting you from the failure of his anti-terror campaign and utter lack of economic vision" would do a lot more than Joe Lieberman's irritating voice piping on about "I've always said we should disarm Iraq".
The unobservant right wingers might suppose the left is ranting and raving against Bush and that's what turned America off but nothing could be further from the truth. A good rant, a strong challenge, a firm "Mr. Bush is not protecting you or your interests" or "Iraq is a pissant country at our disposal when we please, Mr. Bush is distracting you from the failure of his anti-terror campaign and utter lack of economic vision" would do a lot more than Joe Lieberman's irritating voice piping on about "I've always said we should disarm Iraq".
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
Do the Democrats have one though? I don't think they do. Which is why they try to focus on being Bush.
I read an interesting article by Tucker Carlson (guess the political talk show) a while back, in which he basically said that if the Democrats want to do ANYTHING in 2004, they have to be "more Bush than Bush". While I think thats selling their soul, its probably their best chance at winning. Being more Republican than Republicans.
either that or actually have an economic plan
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
It was in the NYT Magazine. A guest article, IIRC. He isn't a regular writer.
he is a good writer though
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
Stop it with the size one font endings!!!
The evil truth of democrats is that instead of kissing arab butt they kiss American butt - white, black, poor, Chinese spy, whatever. Democrats (frankly, Clintonites, I have little experience of else that could mean democrat) simply put the public at ease. Not the "tighty whiteys" who were going to put a new roof on their house and buy a hot tub regardless of whose in charge, usually they get ticked off at the dems. But everyone else... from students to small businessmen to crack addicts...
That benefits the economy because people aren't afraid to spend their money and the economy trickles up. It benefits foreign relations because the rank and file have nothing to protest about in the US and so the Europeans become sure we are cool and the result for Clinton at least was the most armed incursions in US history with nary a shout-out to the UN.
It is that simple. The right wing offends minorities, offends academics, offends self-empowered women, offends labor, offends the very Earth itself I'd imagine. The left wing offends the right wing only, and that is - keep it under your hat - a small and shrinking minority
The evil truth of democrats is that instead of kissing arab butt they kiss American butt - white, black, poor, Chinese spy, whatever. Democrats (frankly, Clintonites, I have little experience of else that could mean democrat) simply put the public at ease. Not the "tighty whiteys" who were going to put a new roof on their house and buy a hot tub regardless of whose in charge, usually they get ticked off at the dems. But everyone else... from students to small businessmen to crack addicts...
That benefits the economy because people aren't afraid to spend their money and the economy trickles up. It benefits foreign relations because the rank and file have nothing to protest about in the US and so the Europeans become sure we are cool and the result for Clinton at least was the most armed incursions in US history with nary a shout-out to the UN.
It is that simple. The right wing offends minorities, offends academics, offends self-empowered women, offends labor, offends the very Earth itself I'd imagine. The left wing offends the right wing only, and that is - keep it under your hat - a small and shrinking minority
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
Never! And what, go back to the *gasp* boring old "CG"?
Don't forget foreign countries!
see you used it yourself
meldor
Deity
I will have to agree that the two parties have started to sound a lot a like on too many issues. I think the problem comes from relying too much on polling data. None of them are willing to say what they think is right as opposed to what the public wants to hear. Which ever party manages to grab the center leaves the other one waving in the wind.
They then have to cuddle up to the extremes and take themselves farther away from the middle, just to make it seem there is a difference.
They then have to cuddle up to the extremes and take themselves farther away from the middle, just to make it seem there is a difference.
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
And that is ultimately what works meldor... when people get angry enough at Bush they will turn not to a clone but to a stark raving liberal.
Well not really. They will turn to the next charming young southerner who makes it thru the primaries. Edwards anyone?
Well not really. They will turn to the next charming young southerner who makes it thru the primaries. Edwards anyone?
meldor
Deity
I will ignore the rest of it as your usual fair, but unfortunately for you, the latest data shows that the youth of today is actually trending more conservative. Maybe as a way to rebel against all those hippie parents and teachers.....
cgannon64
BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!
Originally posted by meldor
I will ignore the rest of it as your usual fair, but unfortunately for you, the latest data shows that the youth of today is actually trending more conservative. Maybe as a way to rebel against all those hippie parents and teachers.....
...then I guess American politics is an endless cycle of conservative, liberal, convserative, ad inifitum?
strange
Sultan Bhargash
Trickster Reincarnated
Youth have every reason to be conservative- as they were in the 80s and probly the 90s. I was a conservative youth.
You start young, with hard working parents and the fruits of a nice American life (car, stereo, joyfully abstinent girlfriend ) and you can't understand why everyone isn't also a happy prince. If you are lucky, you never leave the coccoon and get a first hand chance to understand what suffering is all about - you become a compassionate conservative (of the 'for real' kind who back Bush, not the tricky image kind). If you are luckier, you experience all that the world has to offer, including pain and uncertainty, and suddenly you empathize with the strangest folks - the poor, the downtrodden, the huddled masses. And that is when, somewhere halfway thru college and halfway thru your pot-addled brain cells, you become liberal.
The cycle spins. Sure the white kids who answer internet polls are 'becoming more conservative' but that gene is recessive. If the repubs can demonstrate that what they are trying to 'conserve' is more than a 1950s image of the good life, they might get more people on their "peace train". But I doubt they know how or care enough to figure it out. I hope I'm wrong: as many an African American pointed out after the Trent Lott affair, they don't want to have to vote for Democrats only, they would love to have a choice of candidates like white people do. But the fear that they'd be voting themselves out of a fair share of the American dream keeps them from putting their trust in the never-conciliatory republicans.
You start young, with hard working parents and the fruits of a nice American life (car, stereo, joyfully abstinent girlfriend
) and you can't understand why everyone isn't also a happy prince. If you are lucky, you never leave the coccoon and get a first hand chance to understand what suffering is all about - you become a compassionate conservative (of the 'for real' kind who back Bush, not the tricky image kind). If you are luckier, you experience all that the world has to offer, including pain and uncertainty, and suddenly you empathize with the strangest folks - the poor, the downtrodden, the huddled masses. And that is when, somewhere halfway thru college and halfway thru your pot-addled brain cells, you become liberal.The cycle spins. Sure the white kids who answer internet polls are 'becoming more conservative' but that gene is recessive. If the repubs can demonstrate that what they are trying to 'conserve' is more than a 1950s image of the good life, they might get more people on their "peace train". But I doubt they know how or care enough to figure it out. I hope I'm wrong: as many an African American pointed out after the Trent Lott affair, they don't want to have to vote for Democrats only, they would love to have a choice of candidates like white people do. But the fear that they'd be voting themselves out of a fair share of the American dream keeps them from putting their trust in the never-conciliatory republicans.
GerrardCapashen
Benalish Master-at-Arms
Sorry to intrude on the political discussion, but I fail to see what is wrong with genetic research on animals, plants, and for the purpose of curing human genetic diseases.
Genetic research and engineering will be the next major development in science. This research can give us the knowledge and capability to modify crops to make them more disease resistant and to devise new methods of treating most genetic diseases. Cloning is a sticky issue, but genetic research for the sole purpose of curing diseases and developing higher-yield agriculture can save people's lives. It can also allow many Third World countries to finally become self-sufficient with regard to food by creating crops that are more resistant to parisites and can grow in harsher conditions than current crops. I don't know why you are opposed to the potential developments that these scientific advances have made possible.
Genetic research and engineering will be the next major development in science. This research can give us the knowledge and capability to modify crops to make them more disease resistant and to devise new methods of treating most genetic diseases. Cloning is a sticky issue, but genetic research for the sole purpose of curing diseases and developing higher-yield agriculture can save people's lives. It can also allow many Third World countries to finally become self-sufficient with regard to food by creating crops that are more resistant to parisites and can grow in harsher conditions than current crops. I don't know why you are opposed to the potential developments that these scientific advances have made possible.
joespaniel
Unescorted Settler
Cloning and Bush in the same sentance sends a chill right down my spinal cord.
Imagine: There's Two Dubyahs
Imagine: There's Two Dubyahs
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