Stealing from corporations!

[Tahuti]

DISCLAIMER: This thread does not advocate shoplifting from major corporations, nor is this thread intended to discuss tactics and tricks for shoplifting successfully. The goal of this thread is to discuss the ethical implications of such. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

For many forumgoers here, anarchism seems like such an utopian minset. However, to some anarchists, it is a way of life. Something you can practice by fighting and/or avoiding corporations, states and other such entities. One such group of anarchists is CrimethInc. One of their texts advocates shoplifting, essentially arguing that since corporations harm people, it is therefore morally right to harm corporations.

Civfanatics is a wonderful forum to discuss "wacky" beliefs, so dearest reader, do you believe it's morally right, wrong or nondetermined to take what you believe should be yours from corporations?

 

[Commodore]

DISCLAIMER: This thread does not advocate shoplifting from major corporations, nor is this thread intended to discuss tactics and tricks for shoplifting successfully. The goal of this thread is to discuss the ethical permissability of such. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

For many forumgoers here, anarchism seems like such an utopian minset. However, to some anarchists, it is a way of life. Something you can practice by fighting and/or avoiding corporations, states and other such entities. One such group of anarchists is CrimethInc. One of their texts advocates shoplifting, essentially arguing that since corporations harm people, it is therefore not morally wrong to harm corporations.

Civfanatics is a wonderful forum to discuss "wacky" beliefs, so dearest reader, do you believe it's morally right to take what you believe should be yours from corporations?

The bolded part is what is wrong with this type of thinking. Often times, what people believe to be theirs and what is actually theirs are two very different things. And it is the person who believes they deserve more that is usually dead wrong.

 

[Antilogic]

I appreciate that they are the final arbiter of who has harmed who and what the justified punishment is for such harm, without any apparent public notification or disclosure of their process or decision.

 

[Lohrenswald]

Civfanatics is a wonderful forum to discuss "wacky" beliefs, so dearest reader, do you believe it's morally right to take what you believe should be yours from corporations?

short answer is yes

 

[Hygro]

I appreciate that they are the final arbiter of who has harmed who and what the justified punishment is for such harm, without any apparent public notification or disclosure of their process or decision.

viva la revolution broh

 

[Timsup2nothin]

As a former bank robber I am disqualified from making this sort of moral judgement, however I will quote a song lyric that may apply.

I don't mind stealing bread from the mouths of decadence.
But I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled.

 

[Lohrenswald]

short answer is yes

So basically corporations are run by evil rich people who like set up rules to theri advantage.

There's also the whole externalism thing.

There's a teaching-thing about how capitalist society is so ingrained in us that we can't imagine anything else, and I'm feeling that now.

In short, corporations are about saying they know what's best for you but actually do things to harm you.

Also if you do something for money that's immoral and inherantly less valuable kthnx

 

[Camikaze]

One of their texts advocates shoplifting, essentially arguing that since corporations harm people, it is therefore not morally wrong to harm corporations.

I find it difficult to see how that logically follows. To advocate something seems to be saying that that thing is right. But to say something is not wrong is not to say that it is right. There's a difference between "shoplifting is no crime" and "you should shoplift".

As an aside, this kinda reminds of an Australian constitutional case, in which the judge essentially said, "the government is perfectly entitled to censor this article telling people how to shoplift, a copy of which I have annexed to this public and un-censorable judgment".

 

[ls612]

As an aside, this kinda reminds of an Australian constitutional case, in which the judge essentially said, "the government is perfectly entitled to censor this article telling people how to shoplift, a copy of which I have annexed to this public and un-censorable judgment".

For goodness sake, in America you can legally acquire a copy of the original Anarchist's Cookbook (it is extremely dangerous as the recipes are not the most stable).

 

[Takhisis]

thread is thirty days too late

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I'm not a corporation, but I have had things shoplifted from me - either stolen from the craft store where I was selling items I'd made, or right off my table at the craft fair when I was dealing with a customer.

Considering that those items represent quite a bit of time in my finite life that I'm never getting back and I wasn't compensated for that, I'm not amused.

 

[Tahuti]

I'm not a corporation, but I have had things shoplifted from me - either stolen from the craft store where I was selling items I'd made, or right off my table at the craft fair when I was dealing with a customer.

Considering that those items represent quite a bit of time in my finite life that I'm never getting back and I wasn't compensated for that, I'm not amused.

Well, I doubt many people who would say shoplifting from corporations is justified or good would defend stealing from small businesses.

thread is thirty days too late

The thread title probably would have been 'Stealing from Bulgarians!' if it were an April Fools thread.

I find it difficult to see how that logically follows. To advocate something seems to be saying that that thing is right. But to say something is not wrong is not to say that it is right. There's a difference between "shoplifting is no crime" and "you should shoplift".

Good point. I've altered the thread a bit to reflect that.

That being said, shoplifting is a crime. That is a fact, since it is labelled as such by legislation. That something is considered a crime does not necessarily mean its morally wrong or precludes it from being morally right, even. In the same way, that which is morally wrong may not necessarily be a crime.

 

[EnglishEdward]

What is a crime seems to depend upon who is doing the stealing.


http://www.theguardian.com/business...-green-family-millions-administration-arcadia


One rule for the rich, another for everyone else.

 

[Akka]

Shoplifting as a political statement seems a bit dubious to me - I can see the principle, but it's a bit too self-serving to be taken easily at face value.

But I just can't put on the same footing stealing directly from a person and stealing from a corporate entity. I tend to see the first as a pretty big deal, the second I don't really care.

 

[trader/warrior]

I think it still is mostly morally wrong, or has some moral wrongness and some moral rightness at the same time if that makes sense, depending on the precise circumstances. Something done to harm some bad corporation can easily give more overall harm to the little guys just trying to make their way of life rather than the overall inhuman organization.

As an example, I often sneak on the train to go a single station over when I don't have any regular longer trips to make to make me buy a monthly ticket cause the single trip prices are extortionate considering the distance, the emptyness of the trains at the time I usually take it, and they absolutely never have controls there. As a consumer this is obviously a somewhat harmful and wrong choice, but I view it as less wrong than for example the simple act of buying cheap clothes that may well be a product of harmful third world factories with horrible conditions and child labor.

Overall I consider the choice of sneaking on the train that many consider an overt flaunting of the law and immoral action to be less bad than many things people of a western lifestyle do as a completely normal thing in their everyday life. Disregarding that the trains here are state-owned of course (but that might not exacly make them less of a target to your average anarchist I guess), if it were run by a bad mega-corporation I would certainly see it as an additional justification for my sneaky ways.

 

[Snerk]

Short answer is no, it's too convenient.

Long answer is: Depends on the corporation. Depends on what you're taking. Depends on how you take it. Depends on what you do with what you take. And so forth.

 

[Takhisis]

If you do it by raiding the corporation's warehouse by the London docks with your longship, in order to finance further piracy, is it allowed?

 

[Commodore]

I'm not a corporation, but I have had things shoplifted from me - either stolen from the craft store where I was selling items I'd made, or right off my table at the craft fair when I was dealing with a customer.

Considering that those items represent quite a bit of time in my finite life that I'm never getting back and I wasn't compensated for that, I'm not amused.

I'm glad you said this because it highlights that the majority of shoplifting is committed against small businesses, not the "evil corporations". The logic used in the link provided by the OP is nothing more than a pathetic excuse for criminals to justify hurting others. With this logic they can say to themselves "I'm not destroying someone's livelihood, I'm fighting the evils of capitalism!!!"

Sometimes it really amazes me the mental gymnastics people will do just to avoid admitting they are the problem.

 

[Tahuti]

I'm glad you said this because it highlights that the majority of shoplifting is committed against small businesses, not the "evil corporations".

That's not what the thread is about. Indeed, it seems logical that the average shoplifter would prefer to steal from mom-and-pop-stores given there are less security measures. However, we are discussing shoplifting from artificial (e.g. legal) persons here.

 

[Commodore]

That's not what the thread is about. Indeed, it seems logical that the average shoplifter would prefer to steal from mom-and-pop-stores given there are less security measures. However, we are discussing shoplifting from artificial (e.g. legal) persons here.

But it is relevant because it exposes a serious flaw in the logic. Not to mention, most large corporate operations that would be exposed to shoplifting are franchised. That means each individual location is owned by a local individual who runs it as if it were his/her own business. So if you shoplift from one of them, you are still stealing from a small business owner, not the "evil corporation". I'm sorry, there is just no way to justify shoplifting as a way to fight against corporations, because doing so results in you hurting the very people you claim to be striking a blow for.