Successful Communism

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Alright, everyone says that Communism and Socialism aren't necessarily always like the regimes of Stalin and Mao. Camikazee's signiture says it, Karalysia pretends to be a Communist Robot. So, when has communism worked in a manner that was unlike Stalin and Mao? When has it worked successfully according to "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."
 
The thing is, there's never been a "true" communist society. So we can't really judge it's effectiveness yet.
 
The thing is, there's never been a "true" communist society. So we can't really judge it's effectiveness yet.

The "communist" society of Romania, at least, was supposed to be a transition into true communism. A society where money isn't the goal.
 
The "communist" society of Romania, at least, was supposed to be a transition into true communism. A society where money isn't the goal.

Isn't a true communist society supposed to be government-less too?
 
Well, from my limited understanding of communist theory, the key seems to be that implementing communism is optimal at the height of capitalist society. This has never been done, so we can't really say whether communism as Marx would have it is doable.

As for socialism, its been pretty successful in the capitalist societies that it has been attempted in, so I don't see whats so inherently bad about it.
 
Standard small-scale examples are Jewish kibbutz (the example is now somewhat depreciated) and some Spanish communities in the 1930s.

Large-scale examples are difficult to find for obvious reasons.
 
You'll find the kibbutz movement lasted a few generations.

Oops...beaten by Integral. :D
 
willemvanoranje said:
That's not even democratic socialism. It's social democracy.
I've never gotten the difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. Could you explain?

Whomp said:
Oops...beaten by Integral.
Great minds and all that. :D
 
I've never gotten the difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. Could you explain?

I'm no expert, but the way it was explained to me is that Social Democrats believe that you can make capitalism work better for everyone through peaceful reform. Democratic Socialists believe essentially the same thing, but they're a little more leftist and a little more serious about getting rid of capitalism instead of just reforming it.

I identify as a Democratic Socialist, if you were curious.
 
I've never gotten the difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. Could you explain?
I'd like to know too.
Great minds and all that. :D
What's interesting is the explaination of its demise. Some would contend the need to buy more land. I would contend it was air conditioning.
 
It won't work because the whole idea of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" creates a class system itself, where the ones with the greater ability are exploited by those without.

Depending on the way its implemented, it can also be very much like a drug addiction. The government control the supply and are the pushers, and the citizens have to prostitute themselves to keep getting fed.

There are other reasons it sucks, but I can't be bothered to type more. I probably won't even be back to respond again.
 
Exactly Newbunkle.

Just an FYI, the reason I posted this thread may have been to hypothetically get knowledge, but realistically it was to prove that system doesn't work.
 
My friend's rule of thumb:
"Communism [read: collectivism] only works when the total number of people in the system does NOT exceed the number of fingers on your hands."

I'll admit this, for micro-populations, communism works just dandy. Like all those communes during the Spanish Civil War. But once you get past a certain level, right around ten, it (read: collectivism) becomes grossly inefficient.
 
Speaking as a Stalinist, the Soviet Union was the finest and most glorious socialist state to ever exist. I wuv it.
 
Good stuff then. I can denounce socialism as idle dreams too.

As long as you use the term correctly and use substantive arguments, be my guest!

I've never gotten the difference between Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy. Could you explain?

Let's see. Social democracy is about reform within the democratic system and supports a capitalist economy, albeit it (strongly) regulated. It's basically staying within the boundries of the current system, like most of Western-Europe, or at least how it was up to a decade ago: a welfare state of some sort to alleviate poverty and protect citizens from loss of income because of illness or unemployment. Intensive care for education, health, etc. through government subsidies, minimum wage, labour standards, some sort of environmental protection laws, international solidarity and protective laws against racism, homophobia, and those type of things.

Socialism is a transition stage. Power and resources are allocated by the collective, which is more or less the state. There is no space for a capitalist economy in socialism, although there may be some remnants, and wealth/income is nivellated completely. In the end the goal is a communist society without private property or concentrated power. What is commonly known as the communist state, is more a socialist state.

Democratic Socialism is in between these two. The best example are socialists who do not believe in a revolution but a change to a new order through democratic means. There is definetly overlap with social democracy as for some proponents there is more space for capitalism than with socialists, but it tends to differ in the root of these reforms: from the grass-roots.



Trying to explain I must admit I can totally understand your confusion. Probably there are some people that know the huge body of literature on this better than I do, and they will doubtessly point out any mistake or missing crucial value in this post. :goodjob:

Depending on the way its implemented, it can also be very much like a drug addiction. The government control the supply and are the pushers, and the citizens have to prostitute themselves to keep getting fed.

I only need to replace the word 'government' with something like 'the ruling class' to make this a phrase that fits in Das Kapital. Now that I think of this: the government and the ruling class are one. So actually you just made an argument against capitalism. :p
 
The problem causing the demise of communism is the same that destroys capitalism...
Spoiler :
GREED!
 
Karalysia, if don't stop trolling, you will be reported. If you have nothing constructive to say, keep quiet.
 
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