Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
Good luck overseer 
Succession Game for Newbies
- Thread starter TheOverseer714
- Start date
jb1964
Hunter of Fish
What will be the order of play?
Looking to follow you guys and chat w/ Harriet..
Looking to follow you guys and chat w/ Harriet..
Here's the opening screenshot from the save....
With a little paint added by myself...
With the apparent coast two tiles due west and due south I would like to move the settler to make room for cities in those directions so we have a greater number of low corruption core cities.
My first thought was to move due north but northwest and west also make sense. Northwest would take away a forest (10 shields) and a possible bonus grassland. Due West seems to make the most space but would delay the use of the cow until our borders expanded.
At Monarch, and with Alphabet as a starting tech, we can afford a move and maybe two. Just a thought.
The red circle is were I imagined a city that's on the river, proabably on a coast and 3 tiles away from the capitol if the settler moves.
With a little paint added by myself...
With the apparent coast two tiles due west and due south I would like to move the settler to make room for cities in those directions so we have a greater number of low corruption core cities.
My first thought was to move due north but northwest and west also make sense. Northwest would take away a forest (10 shields) and a possible bonus grassland. Due West seems to make the most space but would delay the use of the cow until our borders expanded.
At Monarch, and with Alphabet as a starting tech, we can afford a move and maybe two. Just a thought.
The red circle is were I imagined a city that's on the river, proabably on a coast and 3 tiles away from the capitol if the settler moves.
What will be the order of play?
Looking to follow you guys and chat w/ Harriet..
Not 100% sure but the play order is Overseer,Othniel,me,Tad, and then Hy I think
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
yeah thats the order I guess we have 2 wait for the overseer 2 start playing, and start the bloodshed 
Im guessing 20 turns per person? 
Im guessing 20 turns per person? 
lurker's comment: Just a couple of lurker comments:
1) I'm not sure which start you have chosen, but at least a couple of those posted are powerful enough that I would not lose any sleep over having to move your settler once to get off of a BG. You should be able to compensate for the lost turn at Monarch.
2) I can't recall if a VC has been chosen, but FWIW, here is my thought on governments. Even if Conquest is chosen, you could try it in Republic. Is this still a TDG? If so, it might have some learning value to use oscillating wars to control WW issues in Republic. It's not AW, after all.
Good luck, team!
1) I'm not sure which start you have chosen, but at least a couple of those posted are powerful enough that I would not lose any sleep over having to move your settler once to get off of a BG. You should be able to compensate for the lost turn at Monarch.
2) I can't recall if a VC has been chosen, but FWIW, here is my thought on governments. Even if Conquest is chosen, you could try it in Republic. Is this still a TDG? If so, it might have some learning value to use oscillating wars to control WW issues in Republic. It's not AW, after all.
Good luck, team!
My screenshot is from Tad's posted save. A cow, three bonus grasslands, it's a great start.
As far as the turnplaying goes I think the first player should play 20 and then we go 10 after that.
If we have a concensus on Tad's start and the need to irrigate the cow so that we're are +4 food I would like to see what's just beyond the cow after the worker arrives. If nobody else posts I'll take a peak later in the evening.
As far as the turnplaying goes I think the first player should play 20 and then we go 10 after that.
If we have a concensus on Tad's start and the need to irrigate the cow so that we're are +4 food I would like to see what's just beyond the cow after the worker arrives. If nobody else posts I'll take a peak later in the evening.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Hey, can we put this party on hold for just one more second??? 
I think we are getting just a slight bit ahead of ourselves here, even if we have had 5 pages of posts and not started yet.
There are a few things here that I think still need to be discussed/decided on:
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be
3. Playing order
4. Decision making process
Let me elaborate in the following posts so that what I just said is not lost in the shuffle. PLEASE, please, indulge me in this.
I think we are getting just a slight bit ahead of ourselves here, even if we have had 5 pages of posts and not started yet.
There are a few things here that I think still need to be discussed/decided on:
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be
3. Playing order
4. Decision making process
Let me elaborate in the following posts so that what I just said is not lost in the shuffle. PLEASE, please, indulge me in this.
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
I think we should settle on the same spot & irriagate the cow for FooD and than just settle like crazy CxxxC maybe 
after all we dont want 2 be stuck on a peninsuala or something 
but I think Monarchy would be good for our civ.
-- thats what I think we should do
after all we dont want 2 be stuck on a peninsuala or something but I think Monarchy would be good for our civ. -- thats what I think we should do
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Map we're playing on:
Does it make sense when I talk about the +5fpt in our capital so that we can have a settler factory? I wonder.
If not, please let me know to elaborate further, or else read Bamspeedy's article on settler factories located here
--> http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/deity_settlers1.php
(read the first opening moves. It's got pictures so you'll like it )
or RFHolloway's article located here
--> http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/settler_factory.php
If you want your gameplay to improve by leaps and bounds, you HAVE to know how to set up a factory. REMEMBER, we are playing on a Large map with tons of land to fill in. We need to pump settlers like crazy to fill the land in a reasonable timeframe.
The Illustrated Version:
Ok, so I do like the French start Tad came up with: this one
Notice though, that there is ONE cow and only grassland besides that. Remember that we get the despotism penalty for a long time, especially during the critical expansion phase.
SO, if we irrigate the cow, that tile is worth 4fpt in despotism
(2fpt for the grass + 2fpt for the cow bonus + 1fpt for irrigation - 1fpt for despotism penalty = 4fpt)
That 4fpt tile means we get +2fpt bonus per turn.
Why? 2 of the +4fpt goes to support the population point working that tile, so there is a bonus +2fpt left over. Combine that with the bonus +2fpt that our capital tile makes, we are left with a bonus +4fpt.
Now, even if we work grass tiles the rest of our despotism time, they only produce +2fpt even with irrigation --> that means they add +0 bonus fpt. So, we are stuck at +4fpt. Ok, so what does that mean?
Well, in order for our city to grow (gain a pop point), we need to fill the food box with 20 food "points". If we are gaining +4fpt, we will grow every five turns. Even with a granary which lets us grow a pop point for every 10 food "points", we can only grow 1 pop point every 3 turns
So, what does that mean?
Well, a settler takes out 2 pop from our city, right? So if we want to maintain our capital's population level (and we do, trust me), we need to build a settler in the same amount of time it takes to gain 2 pop.
Here's the bottom line: If we can only get +4fpt, we can only produce a settler every 6 turns and still maintain our capital's population level. If we have +5fpt we can grow our city a pop every 2 turns and produce a settler every 4 turns (provided we have enough production). That is an HUGE, ENORMOUS difference in empire growth rate.
Does it make sense when I talk about the +5fpt in our capital so that we can have a settler factory? I wonder.
If not, please let me know to elaborate further, or else read Bamspeedy's article on settler factories located here
--> http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/deity_settlers1.php
(read the first opening moves. It's got pictures so you'll like it
)or RFHolloway's article located here
--> http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/settler_factory.php
If you want your gameplay to improve by leaps and bounds, you HAVE to know how to set up a factory. REMEMBER, we are playing on a Large map with tons of land to fill in. We need to pump settlers like crazy to fill the land in a reasonable timeframe.
The Illustrated Version:
Ok, so I do like the French start Tad came up with: this one
Notice though, that there is ONE cow and only grassland besides that. Remember that we get the despotism penalty for a long time, especially during the critical expansion phase.
SO, if we irrigate the cow, that tile is worth 4fpt in despotism
(2fpt for the grass + 2fpt for the cow bonus + 1fpt for irrigation - 1fpt for despotism penalty = 4fpt)
That 4fpt tile means we get +2fpt bonus per turn.
Why? 2 of the +4fpt goes to support the population point working that tile, so there is a bonus +2fpt left over. Combine that with the bonus +2fpt that our capital tile makes, we are left with a bonus +4fpt.
Now, even if we work grass tiles the rest of our despotism time, they only produce +2fpt even with irrigation --> that means they add +0 bonus fpt. So, we are stuck at +4fpt. Ok, so what does that mean?
Well, in order for our city to grow (gain a pop point), we need to fill the food box with 20 food "points". If we are gaining +4fpt, we will grow every five turns. Even with a granary which lets us grow a pop point for every 10 food "points", we can only grow 1 pop point every 3 turns
So, what does that mean?
Well, a settler takes out 2 pop from our city, right? So if we want to maintain our capital's population level (and we do, trust me), we need to build a settler in the same amount of time it takes to gain 2 pop.
Here's the bottom line: If we can only get +4fpt, we can only produce a settler every 6 turns and still maintain our capital's population level. If we have +5fpt we can grow our city a pop every 2 turns and produce a settler every 4 turns (provided we have enough production). That is an HUGE, ENORMOUS difference in empire growth rate.
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
I also think we should have an early war so we get strong fast and weaken our first enemy really fast so they won't be a treat! 
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
I just hope that there is another cow or a food bonus near it so then we might get +6fpt
that would be even better If we are on a penensula I think someone has 2 die really quickly(hopefully we get a leader)
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
So, again, I do like Tad's map, but unless there is ANOTHER food bonus in the fog (game, cow, wheat) we do NOT have a 4 turn settler factory.
Now, compare with the two starts I posted:
AND
Both of these can do bonus +5fpt by irrigating the wheat in the first one and irrigating a cow and a flood plains in the second one.
That makes those two maps better for growth rate than Tad's one (sorry, but it's true ) and thus I vote for one of these two maps. (preferably the second one with 70& water.)
Now, compare with the two starts I posted:
AND
Both of these can do bonus +5fpt by irrigating the wheat in the first one and irrigating a cow and a flood plains in the second one.
That makes those two maps better for growth rate than Tad's one (sorry, but it's true
) and thus I vote for one of these two maps. (preferably the second one with 70& water.)
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
I just hope that there is another cow or a food bonus near it so then we might get +6fpt
Unfortunately, +6fpt doesn't help because the extra +1fpt is wasted. (6 does not go into 20 evenly like 5 does).
But thanks for reading that post!
Tad Empire_0_o
GAHH... Puberty
Maybe We can try 2 play 5 turns & if there arnt any other foodbonus than we can go with your map. (keep in mind that our capital will have disease for a loooong looooong time)
I guess I do agree that that start is better but you never know mine might have another cow right next 2 the starting cow that is usually the case but maybe not
Also lets just hope we dont have barbs killing our settlers, that happend in a game once and skrewed me up big time in the beg. & end I lost 2 resourses and 2 lux I would of got if they didnt kill them
I guess I do agree that that start is better but you never know mine might have another cow right next 2 the starting cow
that is usually the case but maybe not Yeah but if we have hills we can get 3 shields extra & still be at 5fpt that makes our production more likely 2 get settlers in 4 turns each
Also lets just hope we dont have barbs killing our settlers, that happend in a game once and skrewed me up big time in the beg. & end I lost 2 resourses and 2 lux I would of got if they didnt kill them
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Ok, next in my list of four items
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be <--
3. Playing order
4. Decision making process
I would like to come up with an Excel spreadsheet before we make our opening moves. I'll post in on this thread so everyone can see it.
The purpose of the spreadsheet is to see the optimum worker moves / build orders so that we can expand our empire the fastest. Once we officially decide on a map, then I can whip out the spreadsheet.
Normally, players make spreadsheets only for higher level games (such as deity) or else for competitions. But we should do one here just to introduce you guys to this important Civ skill.
To recap, the spreadsheet will describe how to move the initial workers and then what we should build in the capital for the first 30 turns or so.
Also, we should discuss as a team if we want to move our settler before we build a city, and then what direction to send any early warriors too, etc.
REMEMBER, the opening part of the game is CRITICAL. Even on Monarch when we will probably win easily, we should practice good early game habits. Take your time, plan things out, and play slowly. Your gameplay will be much improved, trust me.
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be <--
3. Playing order
4. Decision making process
I would like to come up with an Excel spreadsheet before we make our opening moves. I'll post in on this thread so everyone can see it.
The purpose of the spreadsheet is to see the optimum worker moves / build orders so that we can expand our empire the fastest. Once we officially decide on a map, then I can whip out the spreadsheet.
Normally, players make spreadsheets only for higher level games (such as deity) or else for competitions. But we should do one here just to introduce you guys to this important Civ skill.
To recap, the spreadsheet will describe how to move the initial workers and then what we should build in the capital for the first 30 turns or so.
Also, we should discuss as a team if we want to move our settler before we build a city, and then what direction to send any early warriors too, etc.
REMEMBER
, the opening part of the game is CRITICAL. Even on Monarch when we will probably win easily, we should practice good early game habits. Take your time, plan things out, and play slowly. Your gameplay will be much improved, trust me.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Maybe We can try 2 play 5 turns & if there arnt any other foodbonus than we can go with your map. (keep in mind that our capital will have disease for a loooong looooong time)
Yep, disease would be a risk. Good point.
Also lets just hope we dont have barbs killing our settlers, that happend in a game once and skrewed me up big time in the beg. & end I lost 2 resourses and 2 lux I would of got if they didnt kill them
Let's make sure to escort them with warriors if at all possible then.
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Item 3:
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be
3. Playing order <--
4. Decision making process
Yep, I think the roster and playing order are as follows (per Overseer)
1. TheOverseer714
2. Kumquat
3. Othniel
4. Tad Empire
5. HyCrest
6. drakdan? (are you still interested?)
The main thing to discuss: I still think we should have TheOverseer play 20 turns to start us off, and then have 10 turn segments the rest of the way. Sound good?
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be
3. Playing order <--
4. Decision making process
Yep, I think the roster and playing order are as follows (per Overseer)
1. TheOverseer714
2. Kumquat
3. Othniel
4. Tad Empire
5. HyCrest
6. drakdan? (are you still interested?)
The main thing to discuss: I still think we should have TheOverseer play 20 turns to start us off, and then have 10 turn segments the rest of the way. Sound good?
Othniel
fighting for Achsah
Item 4:
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be
3. Playing order
4. Decision making process <--
Again, this is just a reminder that we're a team and need to make decisions as a whole. I think we should discuss with the team before making decisions on these things, (if not other things also):
1. Government change
2. Researching a new tech (this is important)
3. Trading away a tech monopoly
4. Declaring a premeditated war (As opposed to being DOW'ed by the AI)
5. Use of MGL or science leader, if we're so lucky to get one
6. Wonder builds
7. Any major overall strategy shift
Am I missing other big ones???
1. What map we're playing
2. What our opening moves will be
3. Playing order
4. Decision making process <--
Again, this is just a reminder that we're a team and need to make decisions as a whole. I think we should discuss with the team before making decisions on these things, (if not other things also):
1. Government change
2. Researching a new tech (this is important)
3. Trading away a tech monopoly
4. Declaring a premeditated war (As opposed to being DOW'ed by the AI)
5. Use of MGL or science leader, if we're so lucky to get one
6. Wonder builds
7. Any major overall strategy shift
Am I missing other big ones???
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