Suggestions and Requests

[The Diocletian]

When an AI collapses to core, the units stationed in and around the newly independent cities are pushed out of the indie borders. The AI usually will just declare on the indies and retake most or all of the lost cities with these units. Perhaps make seceding cities flip units stationed in (and maybe around) it?

 

[Fresol]

How about making Great Prophets able to conduct Holy Mission? Just like the random event, a Holy Mission at foreign(or your own) capital spreads the religion to 4-6 cities. Something like that.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

How about making Great Prophets able to conduct Holy Mission? Just like the random event, a Holy Mission at foreign(or your own) capital spreads the religion to 4-6 cities. Something like that.

Similarly, I do think that GGs could provide an additional function.
Getting a lot of inspiration from Civ5 lately, and I believe a raw GG (unattached to any unit) could contribute a 10% strength bonus to all units in a stack.

 

[Shadow Merc]

I've talked about this before, but i'm gonna go ahead and make an actual list to keep track.

With all the changes to the mod, Persia is perhaps the most overlooked civilization and has a very unfair starting situation depending on how advanced Babylon is. So here are my suggestions to make Persia more fair to play:

1. Nerfhammer Babylon.

Many of us have mentioned it, but Babylon just loves to beeline certain techs, and frighteningly it often goes straight for Feudalism and has longbows by the time Persia spawns. Not only is this unfair in terms of combat, but no civilization should be in the middle ages by 800 BC (unless you're Youtien). So here are a few options for nerfing Babylon:

A. Make the copper NE of Babylon only spawn after the Persian spawn. This way Babylon can still get to bronze working, but it may not have enough time to raise a force of axemen and spearmen to counter Persia and will have to rely on their UU instead.

B. Make Feudalism require more techs, or change Babylon's teching priorities. Feudalism is definitely too easy to reach if the AI does it the majority of the time. I think Calendar and maybe one other tech added as pre-reqs would be a good way to slow Babylon's advance a little.

C. Remove either the stone or marble near Babylon depending on what wonders they need to build. Babylon is pretty productive, maybe too much, and that's perhaps part of the reason they can outlast Persia since they can quickly produce an army if they so wish. And they always build the Oracle before Greece can, so it would help the Greek UHV as well.

2. Give Persia more settlers at spawn.

Now with the core/periphery rules in place, Persia has to focus on filling their core to avoid stability issues from trying to reach 8% territory (and mind you, Iran has little food). They have four archers but only one settler to found Parsa, so they could probably use one or two more to help fill out the rest of Iran.

3. Push back the spawn date for barbarians.

I've seen Parthian horse archers spawn as early as 3 turns after the Persian spawn. Sure, they usually go after India instead, but having barbs spawn that early when you're more likely focused on conquering Babylon is kind of unfair. I think Persia should only be experiencing barbs after the Greek conquerors spawn, as before that point Persia was pretty unified. Correct me if I'm wrong on barbarian pressure on Persia.

Comments/additions welcome.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I've actually been able to do quite well as Persia by just attacking India instead and using Babylon as a buffer after trolling their economy, but an additional settler and fewer barbs initially would be very useful.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I can kind of confirm Babylon needs a nerf. Playing on latest revision. The have Longbows way too early while the strongest unit will typically be an Indian Swordsman or Greek Hoplite.
The reason why I advocate for this is because it makes it difficult for Persia to perform its intended role, which is to wipe Babylon, and this is especially true of AI Persia.

 

[VGL]

I think that the barbarians should only spawn if Greece is still controlling Iran because they wanted to unite Persia and kick out those Greeks and if Iran didn't, then they shouldn't spawn at all

 

[Visard]

How about removing the Oracle wonder. In ancient times there where many oracles, not just one. It would make more sense for Oracle to be pantheon shrine/national wonder that would give money for every pagan temple you control.

The free tech effect could be given to Ishtar Gate because its current effect isn't very relevant in ancient era. Statue of Zeus could replace Oracle in Greek UHV.

And should the Great Cothon go obsolete at some point, maybe by steam power?

I also want to suggest some changes to Greece:
-Move marble 1 west (That is Sparta!)
-Move clams 1 SOUTH (for Sparta)
-Add silver to spot where Athens is and make it disappear at the same time as elephants in Carthage.

And add improvements to all islands on Mediterranean in the begin or when Phoenicia spawns.
-Mine in Cyprus, pasture in Corsica, Winery in Crete and Sicily.

 

[citis]

How about removing the Oracle wonder. In ancient times there where many oracles, not just one. It would make more sense for Oracle to be pantheon shrine/national wonder that would give money for every pagan temple you control.

The free tech effect could be given to Ishtar Gate because its current effect isn't very relevant in ancient era. Statue of Zeus could replace Oracle in Greek UHV.

And should the Great Cothon go obsolete at some point, maybe by steam power?

I also want to suggest some changes to Greece:
-Move marble 1 west (That is Sparta!)
-Move clams 1 west (For Sparta)
-Add silver to spot where Athens is and make it disappear at the same time as elephants in Carthage.

And add improvements to all islands on Mediterranean in the begin or when Phoenicia spawns.
-Mine in Cyprus, pasture in Corsica, Winery in Crete and Sicily.

Absolutely no. The oracles of Delphoi and Dodone were internationally famous back then. The oracle is already nerfed, gifting a tech from the same era, and greeks are nerfed (they start without metalcasting) to balance the effect of the oracle. Moreover if you move the oracle effect to Istar gate you make Babylon's problem permanent instead of solving it.

Great cothon may go obselete with compass or astronomy (a naval tech). The marble should go to Athens NOT sparta (the marble was attican, Spartans would never let the Athenians to take their marble). Clams should be at Alexandreia's rich, a more important city than Sparta (moreover Sparta was rather food-poor). However, I found silver idea good. Athenians used the incomes from silver ores to invest in military. However, the best way to represent this IMO is a gold resource in Pella (current sheep in Macedonia), the mine was active from ancient times until today!

 

[citis]

I've talked about this before, but i'm gonna go ahead and make an actual list to keep track.

With all the changes to the mod, Persia is perhaps the most overlooked civilization and has a very unfair starting situation depending on how advanced Babylon is. So here are my suggestions to make Persia more fair to play:

1. Nerfhammer Babylon.

Many of us have mentioned it, but Babylon just loves to beeline certain techs, and frighteningly it often goes straight for Feudalism and has longbows by the time Persia spawns. Not only is this unfair in terms of combat, but no civilization should be in the middle ages by 800 BC (unless you're Youtien). So here are a few options for nerfing Babylon:

A. Make the copper NE of Babylon only spawn after the Persian spawn. This way Babylon can still get to bronze working, but it may not have enough time to raise a force of axemen and spearmen to counter Persia and will have to rely on their UU instead.

B. Make Feudalism require more techs, or change Babylon's teching priorities. Feudalism is definitely too easy to reach if the AI does it the majority of the time. I think Calendar and maybe one other tech added as pre-reqs would be a good way to slow Babylon's advance a little.

C. Remove either the stone or marble near Babylon depending on what wonders they need to build. Babylon is pretty productive, maybe too much, and that's perhaps part of the reason they can outlast Persia since they can quickly produce an army if they so wish. And they always build the Oracle before Greece can, so it would help the Greek UHV as well.

2. Give Persia more settlers at spawn.

Now with the core/periphery rules in place, Persia has to focus on filling their core to avoid stability issues from trying to reach 8% territory (and mind you, Iran has little food). They have four archers but only one settler to found Parsa, so they could probably use one or two more to help fill out the rest of Iran.

3. Push back the spawn date for barbarians.

I've seen Parthian horse archers spawn as early as 3 turns after the Persian spawn. Sure, they usually go after India instead, but having barbs spawn that early when you're more likely focused on conquering Babylon is kind of unfair. I think Persia should only be experiencing barbs after the Greek conquerors spawn, as before that point Persia was pretty unified. Correct me if I'm wrong on barbarian pressure on Persia.

Comments/additions welcome.

1.
A. Facing Babylonian melee units is ok, if they control only one small stack of them. Persia has already one city in core (shush) and has early access to horse.

B. I have never seen Babylon reaching Feudalism. If it happens only in paragon, then it's ok. If it happens in emperor, then it does need nerf. I agree than babylonian research rate needs some nerf, but Feudalism is ok.

C. No. It will doom human Babylon.

Historically speaking Persia had a difficulty to conquer Mesopotamia, in fact in conquered Levant before Mesopotamia. So this is at last represented in the game, which is a success, not a bug. And even if Babylon has melee units, is still is doable, you just have to take this horse early.

2. Shirajis has too many food resources. Just found a city there aqnd problem solved. Moreover, you can sacrifice some population in the rest of your empire. Training a settler isn't so difficult, Shush is a productive city too.

3. Barbarians inside Persian borders. That's the main problem of AI and human Persia. And barbarians that will spawn should spawn out of borders. Parthians rose to restore native control, not to collapse central persian authority. So I propose these:
*Parthians spawn only if Persia is dead.
*Assyrians spawn only if Babylon is dead.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

1.
B. I have never seen Babylon reaching Feudalism. If it happens only in paragon, then it's ok. If it happens in emperor, then it does need nerf. I agree than babylonian research rate needs some nerf, but Feudalism is ok.

It happens even on Regent and Normal speed, the standard setting.
If you want, I can even bust out some saves.

2. Shirajis has too many food resources. Just found a city there aqnd problem solved. Moreover, you can sacrifice some population in the rest of your empire. Training a settler isn't so difficult, Shush is a productive city too.

You're kidding right? This is the second time someone has suggested Sirajis has too much Food. It can barely hit Pop 18 without some serious help.

3. Barbarians inside Persian borders. That's the main problem of AI and human Persia. And barbarians that will spawn should spawn out of borders. Parthians rose to restore native control, not to collapse central persian authority. So I propose these:
*Parthians spawn only if Persia is dead.
*Assyrians spawn only if Babylon is dead.

I actually agree with this. This, compounded with Babylonian Longbows just makes Persia's job impossible sometimes.

 

[Leoreth]

I would welcome some proposals on how to improve Persia's population situation without spamming it with food resources.

 

[Chep]

gameplay-wise, I think adding some food to the UB/UP might be an option, since it wont mess up any other civ holding cities there.
if it makes sense historically, I cant judge

I sort of dislike options like adding food resources that then get depleted at a certain moment - unless they get traded, then it might work, like a food res turning into a happyres

 

[Visard]

Persia could start with workboat.
Oasis could give additional food.
Apothecary could give instead of 2 .

 

[citis]

You're kidding right? This is the second time someone has suggested Sirajis has too much Food. It can barely hit Pop 18 without some serious help.

I mean it in context to other Persian cities, not London and California region.

I would welcome some proposals on how to improve Persia's population situation without spamming it with food resources.

Persia isn't that bad actually, it isn't meant to have a lot of population. It is it's own unique flaw. (Well barbarians are its unique flaw, but that should change). If still you want to make a change coverting some plains hills to grassland hills, may do the trick.

 

[Fresol]

I would welcome some proposals on how to improve Persia's population situation without spamming it with food resources.

Add in fresh water source and make all the land irrigable, this will be a first step. Move the wheat a little away to support another city, again, let it be near a fresh water source.

 

[Fresol]

I would welcome some proposals on how to improve Persia's population situation without spamming it with food resources.

Beware, that I have no knowledge in geography about Iran or anywhere really.

But by purely switching position of terrain and resource, I did the following changes to the map: 1) moved the wheat north away from Sirajis to be in reach of Isfahan and Herat. It's still within Parsa's BFC. Also I switched the desert/plain terrain. 2) switched the oasis/desert hill near Isfahan to irrigate the wheat and another plain tile. 3) switched grassland hill/plain hill to have the gems worked more often. 4) switched desert/plain near coast to enable irrigation all the way to Parsa. 5) swithed floodplain/grassland to enable irrigation before Biology. This one is a little bit more complicated since there's the desert->floodplain terrain change. Notice I didn't add in anything at all.

In early part of the game there'll be only 1 or 2 more food after the map change. After Civil Service some more, and even more after Biology.

 

[Tigranes]

In 1834, York became a city and renamed to Toronto.

Meaning on Canadian spawn York must appear as Toronto, please.

 

[Shadow Merc]

I would welcome some proposals on how to improve Persia's population situation without spamming it with food resources.

I just had an idea regarding this. A food bonus for Persia's UB would probably best, but in terms of stability a small expansion of their core might be a good idea.

I'm referring to how Babylon and the surrounding area became central to the Achaemenid Dynasty, as well as the later Parthian and Sassanid dynasties based at Seleucia/Ctesiphon:

Yarshater, Ehsan (1993). The Cambridge History of Iran, Volume 3. Cambridge University Press. p. 482. ISBN 978-0-521-20092-9. "Of the four residences of the Achaemenids named by Herodotus — Ecbatana, Pasargadae or Persepolis, Susa and Babylon — the last [situated in Iraq] was maintained as their most important capital, the fixed winter quarters, the central office of bureaucracy, exchanged only in the heat of summer for some cool spot in the highlands. Under the Seleucids and the Parthians the site of the Mesopotamian capital moved a little to the north on the Tigris — to Seleucia and Ctesiphon. It is indeed symbolic that these new foundations were built from the bricks of ancient Babylon, just as later Baghdad, a little further upstream, was built out of the ruins of the Sassanian double city of Seleucia-Ctesiphon."

So based off of that, perhaps the core can be expanded to include Babylon when they conquer it, and maybe also the palace moving there as well. Having the population of Babylon to boost Persia's core pop would probably help greatly with their stability if they can't focus on settling the rest of Iran early on.

 

[Wessel V1]

I think it has been mentioned before, but Babylon had a Longbowman in turn 87, at the same turn it built the Oracle. While I think Babylon's research path is indeed quite narrowed down it seems towards Feudalism, I also wonder if the 'can't bulb a tech from a later age' applies to the AI.