'Survival Sex' in the ivory coast...

[Eukaryote]

I am not hungry here I sit reading the thread about prostitution in a limited part of Africa. I can go to the tap for a glass of non contaminated water, I know I will have enough to eat when I wake up tomorrow morning, and no one will shoot at me.

Under such circumstances I am not sure I am entitled to mean anything about prostitution for survival – or even a pair of shoes.

This prostitution has made headlines in Europe and the US. If these girls had starved to death in a decent manner – as it often occurs in Africa – none of us would ever have noticed.

You are a wise, wise man Carl.

 

[JollyRoger]

JUST GIVE THEM THE F___ING FOOD THEN!

Why resort to welfare when the free market has provided a solution?

 

[Merkinball]

Yes.

Yes.

No. We just need to get up, find efficient ways help those countries, then do it.

This is crazy...

What part about this is so hard to understand. This does not eleviate any suffering. It exacerbates it and creates more problems than it solves. And forwards existing problems. People from the UN are supposed to be helping to solve crisis'. Not be a contributing factor to them.

 

[Winner]

Getting killed afterwards, is about the only icing on that cake.

Or they could be locked in a modern-day slave camp, working 16 hours a day in terrible conditions and die before reaching adulthood.

Compared to that, sex for money is kinda preferable.

Why does the west have statutory rape laws? Explain that to me. Then extrapolate those reasons ten fold, and you have your reasons as to why this is essentially rape. There's no need to rape because these men are taking advantage of their situation in life.

Because the West is in completely different situation. There are not people starving on the streets, there are not militiamen who shoot people just for fun and the life expectancy isn't below 40. We can afford to do something about these things.

Africans can't, therefore their standards have to be different.

As I said, they don't have to rape because they are taking advantage of their situation in life. If I go into the ghetto of Rochester and offer a 12 year old girl $100 dollars to sleep with her, how's that boil down? Why would it be any different? We should just legalize prostitution and teen prositution all over the globe, because in your debauched mind, this somehow boils down to a "a standard business transaction."

As I said: you can't compare the West with Africa. If 12 year old girl in some Czech city offered me sex for money, I'd call the police, which would then probably arrest her parents. Why? Because she doest have to do that in order to survive. It is completely unnecessary in any developed nation with working social security net.

Africa is different, you should realize that. Nobody will help you. You either do what you can to survive, or you die. As simple as that. Morality is worthless when you're starving.

This is NOT a standard business transaction.

It's fairly standard over there.

Yeah, so did the girl that took a leak on R-Kelly. Doesn't mean it wasn't complete and utter exploitation. Although, not nearly as sick and demented as what is happening here. Again, I don't think you really understand the concept here. These girls are doing this because they KNOW the peacekeepers will give them money.

Ehm, sure, why are you telling me something which is so obvious? If they had sex with someone who doesn't have the money, their effort would be kinda worthless, don't you think?

I think it's you who is out of concept here. You somehow fail to realize how desperate the situation in Africa is sometimes.

If the peacekeepers refused and half of the working girls would starve to death, would you say it was a good decision? If you would, then I think your sense of moral is far worse then mine.

So when I go back to Africa, you think I should sleep with all the girls that make me offers? Maybe we should just send all of our perverts in the west to Africa, that way they can start supporting the poor in Africa. The sex trade in Cambodia? It's kewl. I mean, who care about western taboos on sex right? Nevermind the plethra of issues that arise from it aside from the moral foundations that get shattered in the process...

Whose moral foundations? Why are you trying to shift responsibility to someone else?

I cannot believe people defend this...

I cannot believe some people are so obtuse that they think the other people defend it. They're just trying to explain it.

 

[Winner]

double post

 

[Jawz II]

All sex should be survival sex. There should be a loaded gun next to all beds at all times. If one partner persorms sub-par, the unsatisfied one gets to blow her/his head off with the gun, legally.

This is the first law to be passed after Im declared president of the world for life.

 

[Shadylookin]

I cannot believe some people are so obtuse that they think the other people defend it. They're just trying to explain it.

besides the extremely young ones and the rapes I think it's pretty easy to justify prostitution. They provide a service that the soldiers want. No one feels sorry for a plumber that has to provide a service to put food on the table, why feel sorry for a prostitute its good money and it doesn't really even take any skills or education.

Every working man is a prostitute. Honestly is it really any better to sell your body to help people ejaculate than it is to sell yourself to work for a heartless corporation?[/cynicism]

 

[Merkinball]

Or they could be locked in a modern-day slave camp, working 16 hours a day in terrible conditions and die before reaching adulthood.

Compared to that, sex for money is kinda preferable. - Winner

A modern day slave camp? I'm sorry, even if this does exist, I'd take the slave camp over sexual exploitation.

Because the West is in completely different situation. There are not people starving on the streets, there are not militiamen who shoot people just for fun and the life expectancy isn't below 40. We can afford to do something about these things.

Africans can't, therefore their standards have to be different. - Winner

You didn't answer my question. My question was, what are the REASONS that western states have statutory rape laws. You won't answer the question because you know when you do, you will find out why what is happening in the Ivory Coast is so utterly abhorrent. Tell me. Why does America have statutory rape laws. Quite frankly, if the west is such a land of roses and pastel colored ponies, we shouldn't have statutory rape laws.

You either do what you can to survive, or you die. As simple as that. Morality is worthless when you're starving. - Winner

Let me ask you a question. Do you seriously think that if these girls don't have sex, that they will die. Seriously. Let's go further, do you think that someone who is starving has the physical ability to go out and peddle sex, or perform sex? Do you even have a fundamental understanding of what actually leads to starvation and how prolonged the process is? Do you seriously think that Moroccan men, or any men for that matter, have any desire to have sex with emaciated females? I mean, females that are so thin, so frail, and so hungry, that they are about TO DIE!

These girls aren't starving. Perhaps hungry every now and then, but they're lives are not in jeopardy. They are not going to die if they don't have sex.

And again, I'm not talking about the morality from the girls perspective. I've already said, I think twice now, that their perspective is absolutely irrelevant. You're right in that regard, they have nothing to lose. The only perspective that matters is the professional position of UN peacekeepers. People who are supposed to be eleviating problems, not exacerbating them. Those men ARE from the west. They are trained professionals within the United Nations. They represent the west. These men KNOW BETTER! It's their perspective that should be examined, not the girls. I'm not going to go further, because I'd be repeating myself.

It's fairly standard over there. - winner

Yup, and it happens in the west too. And it's even more wrong when it happens over there. Oh, and just because it's fairly standard. Doesn't make it right. It's still exploitation.

Ehm, sure, why are you telling me something which is so obvious? If they had sex with someone who doesn't have the money, their effort would be kinda worthless, don't you think? - Winner

You really skirted the point. My point was that this batch of Moroccan's seem more than happy and willing to sexually exploit really poor teenaged girls.

I think it's you who is out of concept here. You somehow fail to realize how desperate the situation in Africa is sometimes. - Winner

Excuse me? Again, this is pretty much what I've done for the past two and half years of my life. And I was in a place poorer than the Ivory Coast. And a place with a WAY higher standard of living. A place with a 20% lower life expectancy, twice the infant mortality, higher unemployment, far higher illiteracy, substantially more people living below $2 and $1 a day levels of poverty. I was in a place where people actually starve to death quite regularly, especially last summer. There's no famine going on in the Ivory Coast.

Food security

Côte d’Ivoire faces a gradual deterioration in national food security, according to the World Food Programme (WFP).

The conflict sparked the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people and has led to a steady decline in living conditions.

Food vulnerability varies geographically, with the northern and western regions generally more at risk than the fertile southern half of the country. In the north, poverty and unemployment are rampant, while thousands of immigrant farmers in the west lack access to agricultural land.

UNICEF reports that 15 percent of children under five are underweight and 21 percent are stunted. (This is nothing)

There was an outbreak of avian influenza in April 2006 that was rapidly contained, and reportedly a second one in November 2006.

http://www.irinnews.org/country.aspx?CountryCode=CI&RegionCode=WA

When you're just talking about terms like "underweight"...man...you're not even near the rhealm of a serious famine. When you start seeing terms like "seriously malnurished," and "morbidism." Then you are looking at problems. Look at country profiles of Somalia, Chad, and Niger for comparison's what...kinda poor is like, compared to absolutely poor is like.

The Ivory Coast is poor, but there is nobody starving to death.

If the peacekeepers refused and half of the working girls would starve to death - Winner

You show me some evidence of this. I want you to first show me that people are dying of starvation in the Ivory Coast.

If the peacekeepers refused and half of the working girls would starve to death, would you say it was a good decision? If you would, then I think your sense of moral is far worse then mine. - Winner

You're a selective reader. I'm gonna repeat this one more time since you're really failing at turnabout here. Yes, I would say it would be a good decision to refuse them. My sense of morals say, pull some money out of your pocket, and out of the kindness of your heart, give it to the needy girls. Just like I've done...probably hundreds of times walking around various locals in the Horn of Africa. THAT is morality. THAT is doing what is right. Having sex with the girl is 100% wrong for the multitude of reasons that I've already outlined. If I were to have sex with one of these girls, I'd be exploiting their situation for personal gain. As well as contributing to hosts of other pre-existing problems.

Whose moral foundations? Why are you trying to shift responsibility to someone else? - Winner

You skirted the point here again.

Let's try this one. Since Africa is so poor. And these girls are willing to give up their bodies, why don't we import them into the west as sex slaves? It'll be great in forwarding the human condition. We can advertise it in third world countries, the girls can come, under their own free will, and be sent off to the west. Where upon arrival, they will be auctioned off as child prostitutes to the highest bidder. Seems like a standard business transaction right? CEO's and judges could by a dozen teenage concubines, and pay them with food. I mean, since exchange of food is A-OK with you when it comes to UN Peacekeepers, what would be so wrong with this scheme? Child trafficking sounds like something you should be out there promoting. Not only would it put food in the mouths of poor girls, but it would pull them out of the third world hell holes they come from! That sounds pretty morally upstanding.

I think it's pretty easy to justify prostitution - Shady

It's easy to justify the prostitution. It's not so easy to justify the animals that utilize it, and pay for it in paltry sums of food.