Tactics and Strategy Turns 70-80
- Thread starter Provolution
- Start date
Indiansmoke
Deity
Medic was a good/much needed promo.
For next turn I suggest the 2 workers finish the cottage before they move on?
For next turn I suggest the 2 workers finish the cottage before they move on?
I'd prefer we keep moving to improve the corn. Working on the cottage is like a 'free' move.
If it had't have been for the river we could have spent another turn on the other FP and moved straight on to the corn, or just gone straight to corn after city founded.
Getting the 6
tile will mean we can very quickly whip a monument and recover.
If it had't have been for the river we could have spent another turn on the other FP and moved straight on to the corn, or just gone straight to corn after city founded.
Getting the 6
tile will mean we can very quickly whip a monument and recover.Indiansmoke
Deity
I'd prefer we keep moving to improve the corn. Working on the cottage is like a 'free' move.
If it had't have been for the river we could have spent another turn on the other FP and moved straight on to the corn, or just gone straight to corn after city founded.
Getting the 6
We will gain alot of commerce by delaying corn by 1 turn. Also we don't need to whip a monument..we will use missionary for culture. I suggest that this city gets whipped from size 3 to 2 or size 4 to 2 for granary first...so it always works the corn and the cottage.
Also if I am correct the city grows size 2 same turn whether we improve corn now or next turn...will have to test it though..
damnrunner
Deity
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I'd rather whip a monument than build a missionary. We have excess food in this city and should not be wasting production on a missionary we don't really need.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Religion in the city will also give 25% production bonus on buildings as we will go organized religion...
and there is always the possibility that religion will spread by the time we get the missionary there.
Using missionaries to spread religion is not a waste of hammers.
A monument is 30 hammers and a missionary 40.
You get production bonus, hapiness...and you get to use the whip in something else (like granary).
Don't forget that we want to bulb Philosophy and found Taoism in the Commerce city. We should avoid spreading religion there if possible, if we want to follow that strategy.
damnrunner
Deity
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As a civ we are food and commerce rich and fairly hammer poor. That is my thinking behind whipping a monument rather than building a missionary.
I would also rather have another chariot than a missionary. The 25% building bonus is nice - but we will not be producing enough hammers in city 5 to make it that useful right away.
However, I think that city 5 really needs a monument or a religion right away. The city has plenty of flood plains it can work without expanded borders. Whipping a granary 1st probably makes the most sense.
I would also rather have another chariot than a missionary. The 25% building bonus is nice - but we will not be producing enough hammers in city 5 to make it that useful right away.
However, I think that city 5 really needs a monument or a religion right away. The city has plenty of flood plains it can work without expanded borders. Whipping a granary 1st probably makes the most sense.
If City 5 could build a missionary instead of a monument, that would be great, but it can't if it doesn't already have the religion (not sure if that's what you were suggesting though...)
Getting Conf would def be better than a Monument for sure, but where should we build the missionary? City 6 should get Conf ahead of Shymkent. And we want Jud mish 1st for Aktau. I'm not saying we shouldn't build a mish, but what should we not build to make this happen??
Corn would be more useful for production and growth.
Other than the following what do need to agree on for next turn? (My suggestion in brackets)
1) Production for Shymkent (Monument)
2) Actions for worker pair (farm corn)
3) Action for new worker (mine grassy knoll)
4) Tech rate (another turn at 0%)
Getting Conf would def be better than a Monument for sure, but where should we build the missionary? City 6 should get Conf ahead of Shymkent. And we want Jud mish 1st for Aktau. I'm not saying we shouldn't build a mish, but what should we not build to make this happen??
Corn would be more useful for production and growth.
Other than the following what do need to agree on for next turn? (My suggestion in brackets)
1) Production for Shymkent (Monument)
2) Actions for worker pair (farm corn)
3) Action for new worker (mine grassy knoll)
4) Tech rate (another turn at 0%)
cav scout
The Continuum
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- 2,630
We could hold off on both a monument and misssionary and wait to see if religion spreads naturally to Shymkent. If we don't want to wait for this to happen to get the border pop we can always whip a monument after we whip the granary. But lets do the granary first.
donsig
Low level intermediary
The granary first arguments (for Shymkent) seem to make the most sense. For the other three I see nothing wrong with Kaleb's suggestions.
Ok, let's go for Granary in Shymkent, it does have enough tiles within the small cross to grow ok although I would like those other FPs as they are good even unimproved and can be handy for some whippage!!
Btw I'm pretty sure that by the time we have Philo Shymkent will be the largest city with one religion (remember Aktau will have 2 and Pavlodar will certainly be out of the running with 2 holy sites already)
Btw I'm pretty sure that by the time we have Philo Shymkent will be the largest city with one religion (remember Aktau will have 2 and Pavlodar will certainly be out of the running with 2 holy sites already)
damnrunner
Deity
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But if we could get 3 in Pav that would be damn awesome!
Indiansmoke
Deity
I have run some test..here are the results:
Main findings:
Improving flood cottage first or corn first makes no difference in city growth, City 5 grows size 2 same turn anyway!
The difference is that by improving corn first we settle iron spot 1 turn quicker...and get iron 1 turn quicker....BUT...by improving cottage first we gain about 20 commerce.
So it is a matter of iron 1 turn faster or 20 commerce.
I definattelly would go for the 20 commerce.
Another key point:
IMO we should drop research to 0 for another 2 turns. Pavlodar should work share cottage with capital instead of plains hill for those 2 turns while building warrior.
The point of this is that warrior takes 2 turns to come out and comes out same turn with the settler. So we can switch to organized and monarchy after and build a missionary in Pavlodar straight after worker.
So by dropping slider for 2 turns we lose no commerce by giving cottage to Pavlodar (academy and library have no effect)..and we pile gold to tech straight literature after aesthetics.
Another key point is that the worker that comes out of Pavlodar should go to grassland forest to chop. this way the chop is finished same turn we start missionary, so missionary is ready in 1 turn and can go straight to iron city which will badly need to expand border to get fish.
So to summarize proposed plan
Drop researcjh to 0% for 2 more turns
2 workers improve cottage first and then corn
worker from pavlodar goes to grassland forest to chop
Pavlodar takes over cottage from capital fires plains hill (warrior in 2)
Capital takes the hill back from actau (settler in2)
As soon as settler and warrior ready switch to organized and monarchy and start confu missionary in Pavlodar (carefull confu missionary not Jewish)
Main findings:
Improving flood cottage first or corn first makes no difference in city growth, City 5 grows size 2 same turn anyway!
The difference is that by improving corn first we settle iron spot 1 turn quicker...and get iron 1 turn quicker....BUT...by improving cottage first we gain about 20 commerce.
So it is a matter of iron 1 turn faster or 20 commerce.
I definattelly would go for the 20 commerce.
Another key point:
IMO we should drop research to 0 for another 2 turns. Pavlodar should work share cottage with capital instead of plains hill for those 2 turns while building warrior.
The point of this is that warrior takes 2 turns to come out and comes out same turn with the settler. So we can switch to organized and monarchy after and build a missionary in Pavlodar straight after worker.
So by dropping slider for 2 turns we lose no commerce by giving cottage to Pavlodar (academy and library have no effect)..and we pile gold to tech straight literature after aesthetics.
Another key point is that the worker that comes out of Pavlodar should go to grassland forest to chop. this way the chop is finished same turn we start missionary, so missionary is ready in 1 turn and can go straight to iron city which will badly need to expand border to get fish.
So to summarize proposed plan
Drop researcjh to 0% for 2 more turns
2 workers improve cottage first and then corn
worker from pavlodar goes to grassland forest to chop
Pavlodar takes over cottage from capital fires plains hill (warrior in 2)
Capital takes the hill back from actau (settler in2)
As soon as settler and warrior ready switch to organized and monarchy and start confu missionary in Pavlodar (carefull confu missionary not Jewish)
I'm fine with Smokey's plan for Pavlodar.
Only question I have is will Pavlodar be able to get a Jewish Missionary out in time for Aktau to start a Jewish temple after finish it's Confucian temple?? Perhaps not, but it can build something else while it waits, we'll still get the GPro before the next GSci
Regarding City 5 I've also been thinking that if we grow fast (which we will do with farmed Corn) we'll soon be working unimproved tiles as we don't have enough workers. So finish the cottage will mean slower growth in short term but not much lost in terms of production.
Only question I have is will Pavlodar be able to get a Jewish Missionary out in time for Aktau to start a Jewish temple after finish it's Confucian temple?? Perhaps not, but it can build something else while it waits, we'll still get the GPro before the next GSci
Regarding City 5 I've also been thinking that if we grow fast (which we will do with farmed Corn) we'll soon be working unimproved tiles as we don't have enough workers. So finish the cottage will mean slower growth in short term but not much lost in terms of production.
Indiansmoke
Deity
How many times will I have to say it
Finishing the cottage first does NOT mean slower growth...city grows size 2 same turn regardless of wht we improve first cottage or corn!
Indiansmoke
Deity
Actau has to whip worker before whipping temples...we need the workers, and Pavlodar will have more than enough time to make missionary.
Great prophet will take 17 turns, by running 2 prophets...so enough time to pop if we start running the priests same turn or a turn before we start the great library.
We need 10 turns for literature so we got time.
Remember we need at least 1 worker in capital to chop great library and make cottages...so after chariot in actau whip worker send to capital to pre cottage...finish cottage same turn we start GL and then chop the other 2 forests.
After we finish the settler in Hazrate we should build another settler. If Hazrate grows, we would be working unimproved tiles anyway. In fact, we should keep building settlers until it is time for Great Library. Maybe we can squeeze out 2 before we discover literature. Maybe we can even wait for Hazrate to finish 2 settlers before we start GL. No other team has any chance of beating us to it.
Pavlodar should build a forge next if we get Metal Casting from SANCTA. Pavlodar is supposed to be our production center. If we don't make the trade, Pavlodar should build a settler. We don't want Pavlodar to get too large anyway, because we want Taoism to found in Shymkent.
We need to settle Syr Darya AND we need to get the corn and Gold in the west, so settlers should be a priority. I am also starting to rethink the horrible fish city as our Moai site but that can wait. At any rate we should be REXing more aggresively.
There is little point in building another worker that we cant defend. Aktau and Oskemen should keep pumping chariots. One of the main uses for chariots is exploration, but we cant explore because barbs have us pinned down. We need to keep producing chariots until we can push our exploration into the Syr Darya valley.
Temples and Missionaries can wait until we are close to founding Taoism. Great Prophets are NOT urgent. Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy IS urgent.
I have attached some screenshots of my tests for reference (and critique
) As you can see... Archers are coming soon, and they can kill chariots.
Following this plan will get us to the Copper city a few turns after turn 93. I think holding up shrines is worth it.
Pavlodar should build a forge next if we get Metal Casting from SANCTA. Pavlodar is supposed to be our production center. If we don't make the trade, Pavlodar should build a settler. We don't want Pavlodar to get too large anyway, because we want Taoism to found in Shymkent.
We need to settle Syr Darya AND we need to get the corn and Gold in the west, so settlers should be a priority. I am also starting to rethink the horrible fish city as our Moai site but that can wait. At any rate we should be REXing more aggresively.
There is little point in building another worker that we cant defend. Aktau and Oskemen should keep pumping chariots. One of the main uses for chariots is exploration, but we cant explore because barbs have us pinned down. We need to keep producing chariots until we can push our exploration into the Syr Darya valley.
Temples and Missionaries can wait until we are close to founding Taoism. Great Prophets are NOT urgent. Great Scientist to bulb Philosophy IS urgent.
I have attached some screenshots of my tests for reference (and critique
) As you can see... Archers are coming soon, and they can kill chariots.Following this plan will get us to the Copper city a few turns after turn 93. I think holding up shrines is worth it.
Attachments
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I support this plan, if not for the purpose of getting more hammers up.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Sommers, your test went to turn 93. Did you make any progress towards a great person during that time? I'm also a bit confused about one aspect of your conclusions. You say we shouldn't build workers we can't protect yet you urge us to build settlers. It seems to me if we can't protect our workers within our borders we'd have an even tougher time protecting settlers trying to build cities beyond our borders. What am I missing? 
