Team Game - Isolated Pacal (Deity)
- Thread starter Fippy
- Start date
Hmm idk. I really don't like attacking such a strong AI without even having a hill to land on. But the other targets are so meh... At least he doesn't have cannons. Maybe ~9 Rifles shoud do it? -- 3 turns of drafting. His SoD is still in Delhi and looking nasty with Rifles & Cuirs/Cavs.
Can also look at it in another way: if we don't take out Asoka and go for a small AI, it will be a very long and slow game and we'll probably never play it out
Can also look at it in another way: if we don't take out Asoka and go for a small AI, it will be a very long and slow game and we'll probably never play it out
Current power ratio seems to be ~0.3. Don't have BUG installed at the moment to see exact value. Even if it becomes 0.4 after some drafting and whipping its still looks like suicide.
There are two hills near Calcutta suitable for landing. No idea how to survive the attack though, he's got too much siege.
Lain
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Worst case we move the stack and attack from here. Guaranteed first strike since he doesn't have open borders with Giggles. Capturing it and letting him re-take with his army.
Kind of optimistic about holding 1S of Lahore though. With something like 15 Cannons/15 Rifles.
Spoiler :
Kind of optimistic about holding 1S of Lahore though. With something like 15 Cannons/15 Rifles.
Anysense got a point. If we can't get the first attack we don't stand a chance. Try to throw 15 barrage II cats at a Rifle+Cannon+WE stack and then attack it with Rifles & Cavalry. I also don't like the idea of atacking Anasazi first -- I don't think he'll send his big stack to such a minor city. However, after a good night's sleep, an idea game up 
Right now Gilgamesh is at +8 with only +1 trade relations. So if we gift him something he'll become friendly and we'll be able to bribe him on Asoka. Conveniently enough, we can trade Rifling+Chemistry to Willem next turn for SM, which Giggles doesn't have. Which means in two turns we DoW Asoka & bribe Giggles on him with Steel. Should get us rid of the SoD. Now it's time for the final war preps and some major butt-kicking
Right now Gilgamesh is at +8 with only +1 trade relations. So if we gift him something he'll become friendly and we'll be able to bribe him on Asoka. Conveniently enough, we can trade Rifling+Chemistry to Willem next turn for SM, which Giggles doesn't have. Which means in two turns we DoW Asoka & bribe Giggles on him with Steel. Should get us rid of the SoD. Now it's time for the final war preps and some major butt-kicking
. Keep explorer in Gilga's territory to keep track of what's going on?
Tech -> Towards Military Tradition, or a straight beeline for Artillery?!
Should we pick up some smaller techs in trade? CoL, Music etc.
Regarding landing location, is 1S of Lahore an option. That's very close to our homeland so easy for reinforcements. The idea would be to take Lahore and defend it lightly (1 or 2 riflemen). The AI will then throw a lot of catapults at these two units to take back the city. Since our stack is one step behind, it is relatively safe. This allows us to always use our cannons to attack a city at which they're quite good.
I am not dissatisfied with our 3 south western cities, I think they're contributing well in terms of troops now.
In general, I assume we will keep, not raze cities right?
Should we pick up some smaller techs in trade? CoL, Music etc.
Regarding landing location, is 1S of Lahore an option. That's very close to our homeland so easy for reinforcements. The idea would be to take Lahore and defend it lightly (1 or 2 riflemen). The AI will then throw a lot of catapults at these two units to take back the city. Since our stack is one step behind, it is relatively safe. This allows us to always use our cannons to attack a city at which they're quite good.
I am not dissatisfied with our 3 south western cities, I think they're contributing well in terms of troops now.
In general, I assume we will keep, not raze cities right?
IMO bank gold for a while & probably go for Biology or some other good trade bait. Probably not gonna take anyone out after Asoka, except maybe Willem if he still doesn't have any dangerous units (MGs, Inf, Art). Then tech to tanks or straight to space. MT won't help us much -- only units we'll be whipping are cannons. Every Rifle will be drafted.
I think the best first target is Delhi (land 1E of Varanasi) - Asoka's stack will be away in Sumerian lands - that will hurt his production a lot. Plus it's on flatland, two things Lahore doesn't have. Also, Delhi is in a central location, making it easy to move the stack around depending on which city we want to attack next. The spy will be very helpful as long as he doesn't get caught.
Yup keep everything except maybe Rotterdam if we don't attack Willy next.
I think the best first target is Delhi (land 1E of Varanasi) - Asoka's stack will be away in Sumerian lands - that will hurt his production a lot. Plus it's on flatland, two things Lahore doesn't have. Also, Delhi is in a central location, making it easy to move the stack around depending on which city we want to attack next. The spy will be very helpful as long as he doesn't get caught.
Yup keep everything except maybe Rotterdam if we don't attack Willy next.
Lain
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So would we just gift Scientific Method to Gilga, or trade for something like Education at least? Flat gift to be safe?
Also, since we will be at war before landing, 1-2 Frigates for defense might be important?
Could AP be a problem? We have 2 cities with Hinduism, peace resolution defy incoming? :/
Also, since we will be at war before landing, 1-2 Frigates for defense might be important?
Could AP be a problem? We have 2 cities with Hinduism, peace resolution defy incoming? :/
There's a formula for that, gotta check it out.
Btw I completely forgot to write-up. Kinda lazy right now but basically I banked gold for one turn then put 2.5T into RP and traded Gunpowder for it with Willem.
Traded Astro for Philo+Gold to Gilga as he was researching it. Traded Astro+PP for Nat+gold to SB who was researching Astro. Nothing too fancy.
I didn't check the AP last turnset. I think there was a vote recently. Frigates can be upgraded Caravels -- we'll be banking gold for a couple of turns (upgrade cannons) so that's no big deal.
Btw I completely forgot to write-up. Kinda lazy right now but basically I banked gold for one turn then put 2.5T into RP and traded Gunpowder for it with Willem.
Traded Astro for Philo+Gold to Gilga as he was researching it. Traded Astro+PP for Nat+gold to SB who was researching Astro. Nothing too fancy.
I didn't check the AP last turnset. I think there was a vote recently. Frigates can be upgraded Caravels -- we'll be banking gold for a couple of turns (upgrade cannons) so that's no big deal.
The answer is here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...in-game-mechanics.464503/page-5#post-12036166
I'm too lazy to make the calculation, but my gut feeling is that SM isn't much more valuable than Edu in a Player-to-AI trade so we probably won't get the required +2 bonus. And I don't feel confident giving him Steel as maybe we won't be able to bribe him with SM (Steel is much more valuable than SM, not only because of the 700b difference, but also because it's a monopoly tech)
I'm too lazy to make the calculation, but my gut feeling is that SM isn't much more valuable than Edu in a Player-to-AI trade so we probably won't get the required +2 bonus. And I don't feel confident giving him Steel as maybe we won't be able to bribe him with SM (Steel is much more valuable than SM, not only because of the 700b difference, but also because it's a monopoly tech)
Lain
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Next AP vote would be in 3 turns. Only thing I'm not sure about, can he even call a peace resolution without being in Hinduism (= Full Member)? Confusing. Would we still stick with plan of dow'ing in 2 turns?
Also have to say, I'd rather land here I think. We can still get hit by catapult stacks and stuff like that, if we go for Delhi that army is on its own, without a great medic or reinforcements.
Also have to say, I'd rather land here I think. We can still get hit by catapult stacks and stuff like that, if we go for Delhi that army is on its own, without a great medic or reinforcements.
Spoiler :
Not sure about the AP thing. The main advantage to landing on the tile you're pointing at is that our stack will be on a hill before Asoka's SoD can reach us. Not sure what you mean by catapult stacks & stuff, but it does indeed look like a safer move. Another advantage is that we'd take control of the Kashi thingy a few turns earlier (big gpt).
By the way, do you have some starting saves of tough iso maps? I don't seem to be rolling any interesting iso maps atm.. Wanna experiment with the late game war stuff, plus it's always interesting to compare strategies
By the way, do you have some starting saves of tough iso maps? I don't seem to be rolling any interesting iso maps atm.. Wanna experiment with the late game war stuff, plus it's always interesting to compare strategies
Could be worse, like Gilgamesh capitulating. Don't think this can happen here though. Can he give Steam Power for peace? That would be disastrous, putting Asoka 1 step from AL.
What about tech trades? No point in whithholding anything, I suppose? May be, Steel to Willem for Lib+CoL, then 3 techs for Physics with SB and Physics+Lib for Steam Power; Rifling for Constitution with Pericles, everybody has Corporations.
What about tech trades? No point in whithholding anything, I suppose? May be, Steel to Willem for Lib+CoL, then 3 techs for Physics with SB and Physics+Lib for Steam Power; Rifling for Constitution with Pericles, everybody has Corporations.
Let's hope Asoka's stack gets destroyed before he can upgrade it to anything (really) dangerous. Nice progress here -- the first capture is always the hardest. Of course, attacking at tech parity & with fewer cities is always frustrating, especially when a navy is required. I agree with taking Delhi next. Probably Viji after that and then raid his coastal cities (really fast if troops move around in Galleons).
I agree with Anysense's trading pattern. No guarantee that we'll be able to secure all these trades, esp. with WFYABTA, but at this point any trade that doesn't put Asoka closer to AL/Art/RR is a good one.
Oh and sure I'm interested in a toughish semi-iso
I agree with Anysense's trading pattern. No guarantee that we'll be able to secure all these trades, esp. with WFYABTA, but at this point any trade that doesn't put Asoka closer to AL/Art/RR is a good one.
Oh and sure I'm interested in a toughish semi-iso
Varanasi, lightly defended and coastal, so frigates could pre-bombard, looks attractive to me. Of course, Delhi is a lot more valuable as a target. Can we move our stack in such a way that attacking either remains possible? (With mounted units, you can actually threaten two cities this way and the AI might try to defend both, but that's not an option for us.)
