Team Game - Isolated Pacal (Deity)
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Lain
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Could play a bit in the next days. Hm, so we aim to attack at Steel... might want to find Asoka's stack and scout a bit. I mean, Steel comes in like... 15 turns? Would definitely have to stress some cities to be ready until then. I would maybe re-evaluate the situation in another 5 turns or so.
In this case, 3-4 Galleons should be enough though? Land 6 cannons, 3 maces, 3 jumbos ... take city, cease fire?
Maoi Statues come much later yeah, sometime before golden age.
Well, Banks. I usually only build one in the super-duper capital, don't really have that here. Of course a few cities could benefit from that though. Uxmal, maybe Calakmul or what it's called.
In this case, 3-4 Galleons should be enough though? Land 6 cannons, 3 maces, 3 jumbos ... take city, cease fire?
Maoi Statues come much later yeah, sometime before golden age.
Well, Banks. I usually only build one in the super-duper capital, don't really have that here. Of course a few cities could benefit from that though. Uxmal, maybe Calakmul or what it's called.
I don't think it's a good thing to stress the cities too much, especially the high-commerce ones. However, I'd also avoid working any food-negative cottages. City "whip plan" should be something like:
Mutal: no whip, just grow and max out base hammers
Lakhama: whip trebs/galleons 9-6, put OF in mostly jumbos. Better to 3whip when possible as it reduces unhappiness. Only regrow on food-neutral tiles (avoiding the hills village)
CI: whip trebs/galleons 9-6 into Globe
Uxmal should probably get an extra workshop + windmills and not be whipped, as the food surplus is extremely low and we're whipping away really good tiles
Mayapan: 2whip stuff (elephants and trebs) 8-6. No need to worry much about unhappiness here as food surplus is so low.
Calakmul: whip stuff 9-7, then Cannons 9-6. Whipping trebs 9-6 here would mean not working the iron tile for one turn each time, which will eventually be a big hammer loss. I think we can accept a bit more unhappiness and build a Ball Court with the "extra" hammers"
Oxhuzita: land not really improved yet. For now, just have to make sure that pigs + all GrassFarms are worked even after whiping. The stone should be whipped away and added back during growth. After RP the windmills will also be worth working.
Quirigua: whip 5-3 (work all 3 farms and add the copper mine at size 4)
Xukpi: whip 4-2 (work clams+upcoming windmill, and add upcoming WS at size 3)
Of course, this is more of a rough guideline than a very strict plan, but I think that it should get us where we want to go.
About banks: if we are to take out 2-3 AIs, I would build every bank I can in Mutal, Lakamha, Uxmal and Mayapan as long as it doesn't hamper war progress. But by the time we reach Rifling, the "new" cities should have reached cruise speed and production should be less of an issue, especially if they haven't got their own Rifles yet. In these cities, banks will pay for themselfes after ~8 turns of 0% slider. Considering that we'll likely spend 40+ turns at war and a few more not being able to hold a 100% slider, they will definitely be a big boost.
I'll be away next week btw.
Mutal: no whip, just grow and max out base hammers
Lakhama: whip trebs/galleons 9-6, put OF in mostly jumbos. Better to 3whip when possible as it reduces unhappiness. Only regrow on food-neutral tiles (avoiding the hills village)
CI: whip trebs/galleons 9-6 into Globe
Uxmal should probably get an extra workshop + windmills and not be whipped, as the food surplus is extremely low and we're whipping away really good tiles
Mayapan: 2whip stuff (elephants and trebs) 8-6. No need to worry much about unhappiness here as food surplus is so low.
Calakmul: whip stuff 9-7, then Cannons 9-6. Whipping trebs 9-6 here would mean not working the iron tile for one turn each time, which will eventually be a big hammer loss. I think we can accept a bit more unhappiness and build a Ball Court with the "extra" hammers"
Oxhuzita: land not really improved yet. For now, just have to make sure that pigs + all GrassFarms are worked even after whiping. The stone should be whipped away and added back during growth. After RP the windmills will also be worth working.
Quirigua: whip 5-3 (work all 3 farms and add the copper mine at size 4)
Xukpi: whip 4-2 (work clams+upcoming windmill, and add upcoming WS at size 3)
Of course, this is more of a rough guideline than a very strict plan, but I think that it should get us where we want to go.
About banks: if we are to take out 2-3 AIs, I would build every bank I can in Mutal, Lakamha, Uxmal and Mayapan as long as it doesn't hamper war progress. But by the time we reach Rifling, the "new" cities should have reached cruise speed and production should be less of an issue, especially if they haven't got their own Rifles yet. In these cities, banks will pay for themselfes after ~8 turns of 0% slider. Considering that we'll likely spend 40+ turns at war and a few more not being able to hold a 100% slider, they will definitely be a big boost.
I'll be away next week btw.
Fippy
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Imo Mutal could be whipped like other cities, when unhappy runs out.
Nothing special here, those windmills are weak tiles.
If we care about weak (for capitals) cities like that, ofc we would have troubles building an army for an earlier attack.
But i would disagree with that.
We whipped away stronger tiles in Uxmal..
Nothing special here, those windmills are weak tiles.
If we care about weak (for capitals) cities like that, ofc we would have troubles building an army for an earlier attack.
But i would disagree with that.
We whipped away stronger tiles in Uxmal..
^
True. I'm too used to having a capital with a good reason not to whip (Bureau/v. good tiles or high research multipliers), but here it's not the case. Might have to reconsider that after RP, though, when WMs become really valuable. Whipping Uxmal for units in the first place was probably a mistake (my mistake..)
True. I'm too used to having a capital with a good reason not to whip (Bureau/v. good tiles or high research multipliers), but here it's not the case. Might have to reconsider that after RP, though, when WMs become really valuable. Whipping Uxmal for units in the first place was probably a mistake (my mistake..)
Fippy
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No need for calling Uxmal whip a mistake 
Hammers are hammers, Treb gained.
We can probably micro tiles a bit, so cottages can be worked faster again.
If we also are consequent in other cities (Mutal), i am positive that we can get a nice backstab on Asoka (if that still looks good later).
Hammers are hammers, Treb gained.
We can probably micro tiles a bit, so cottages can be worked faster again.
If we also are consequent in other cities (Mutal), i am positive that we can get a nice backstab on Asoka (if that still looks good later).
Lain
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Yeah I usually don't attack before Rifles anymore (in iso). Couple of reasons.
- it's usually a bit awkward with production... Astro cities don't contribute yet.
- new cities on other continents cost too much until Communism which is far away
- can get burned really bad if target has/gets Cuirs, Grenadiers or even mass knights
But a backstab while Asoka's SOD is doing something else... why not. So, any specific instructions for the next few turns if I continue a bit
?
- it's usually a bit awkward with production... Astro cities don't contribute yet.
- new cities on other continents cost too much until Communism which is far away
- can get burned really bad if target has/gets Cuirs, Grenadiers or even mass knights
But a backstab while Asoka's SOD is doing something else... why not. So, any specific instructions for the next few turns if I continue a bit
?
Fippy
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Hmm i like Jumbo and Galleon in Mutal, whipping one of them for overflow into other.
* Lakamha Galleon 3-pop at a point you like, overflow completes barracks.
* CI can finish Galleon before we are ready to whip again, into barracks and Globe
* Mayapan i would let grow for a while, ignoring whip timer. Observatory here, good if we can take some of Uxmal's bigger cottages.
* Ox i would whip often for Jumbos, imo nothing but Pigs really important for some time, and i would make use of whips being good at low pop.
Would not be concerned about whip anger here.
* Lakamha Galleon 3-pop at a point you like, overflow completes barracks.
* CI can finish Galleon before we are ready to whip again, into barracks and Globe
* Mayapan i would let grow for a while, ignoring whip timer. Observatory here, good if we can take some of Uxmal's bigger cottages.
* Ox i would whip often for Jumbos, imo nothing but Pigs really important for some time, and i would make use of whips being good at low pop.
Would not be concerned about whip anger here.
Lain
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Playing now. Interesting question about Ox... what is better:
- work pigs and 3x grass farm ... whipping 6 -> 4 (Option A)
or
- just whip 4 -> 2 all the time (Option B). Working less farms in the process, but also needs less food to regrow. Is this worse?
- work pigs and 3x grass farm ... whipping 6 -> 4 (Option A)
or
- just whip 4 -> 2 all the time (Option B). Working less farms in the process, but also needs less food to regrow. Is this worse?
Fippy
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Seems good to have some units either way now yup, with Asoki still plotting.
Connecting all our cities with roads has priority soon?
Shame that Wang wants 265 gold for PP too, he might have started on Astro.
Still would prefer paying gold over giving away Gunpowder, sometimes AIs are late on GP and it's blocking them from teching Rifling and Chemistry (and so getting any dangerous unit)
Connecting all our cities with roads has priority soon?
Shame that Wang wants 265 gold for PP too, he might have started on Astro.
Still would prefer paying gold over giving away Gunpowder, sometimes AIs are late on GP and it's blocking them from teching Rifling and Chemistry (and so getting any dangerous unit)
Looking at the save:
What would be our goal if we go to war with India? Capitulation and gift back, conquering all, just doing some damage? Getting some cities there could allow us to build troops on the continent. If we kill India completely, we can draft there, but knocking them out is very hard. Capitulated, they can form a good staging point for the attack and their units will fight along.
What's the best way to handle our cities now? How much whipping?
What would be our goal if we go to war with India? Capitulation and gift back, conquering all, just doing some damage? Getting some cities there could allow us to build troops on the continent. If we kill India completely, we can draft there, but knocking them out is very hard. Capitulated, they can form a good staging point for the attack and their units will fight along.
What's the best way to handle our cities now? How much whipping?
I'll play a few turns
@dutchfire at this point of the game what we want is mostly to grab more land. Considering that we might not only get Asoka, but also maybe Willem or Gilgamesh, it might be a good idea to cap India fairly early.
@dutchfire at this point of the game what we want is mostly to grab more land. Considering that we might not only get Asoka, but also maybe Willem or Gilgamesh, it might be a good idea to cap India fairly early.
Concerning trades:
Willem will trade Education and doesn't have PP, which means there will be an Education for PP trade between Wang and Willem almost certainly.
What we can do is get Education from Willem for GP+PP, put 1T of research into RP and trade Edu for RP next turn with Wang. It's extremely efficient beaker-wise but loses the monopoly on GP -- what do you think? It also allows to get some gold in the trades and thus does not delay Steel.
(No one has apparently started researching GP & Willem won't give Philo+Edu for PP+GP)
Willem will trade Education and doesn't have PP, which means there will be an Education for PP trade between Wang and Willem almost certainly.
What we can do is get Education from Willem for GP+PP, put 1T of research into RP and trade Edu for RP next turn with Wang. It's extremely efficient beaker-wise but loses the monopoly on GP -- what do you think? It also allows to get some gold in the trades and thus does not delay Steel.
(No one has apparently started researching GP & Willem won't give Philo+Edu for PP+GP)
Lain
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Hm interesting, I'd say go for the trade. If we want to attack with just Steel already, whipping a bit heavier could be necessary now. And should be fine economically if all that's left to tech is Rifling. Looks like we'd have to kill Asoka's SoD ourselves. So we would probably create a chokepoint and bait him there, instead of taking 3-4 coastal cities?
