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[NFP] Tech and Civics Shuffle Mode: your impressions and screenshots

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by MrRadar, Aug 27, 2020.

  1. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    An interesting case of absolutely vital Square Rigging with an unlikely eureka. First learn how to make the biggest guns possible and mount them on the ships, and as for that black powder that makes the boom, well, we'll worry about that later.
    What's that expression - cart before the horse, isn't it? :)

     
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  2. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

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    I'm just investigating it but it seems a bit underwhelming so far.
    I think that because it relies on randomising the actual techs, it's really going to depend on your own luck with how the whole tree ends up. But to me it doesn't really make much sense, there's no logical progression e.g. sailing -> ship building -> square rigging makes sense. Sailing -> iron working -> printing is a bit of a head scratcher.
    Still, I'll see how this game pans out before deciding one way or the other.
     
    Kmart_Elvis likes this.
  3. walkerjks

    walkerjks Prince

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    Some of us don't build mines (very often). But I am aware that low-production culture wins are not the usual way to play the game.
     
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  4. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    Yes, time will tell us... In my game it took until T57 for the age switch, so it seems to be least possible what I assumed in regard to an average slower pace. Here are the trees:

    Spoiler :

    AntikeT57Wissenschaft.jpg

    AntikeT57Kultur.jpg


    And of course overall game settings like map size or modes like secret societies on/off play also a role for the pace, if you compare turn numbers for age switches - my example is from a game played on huge map size on fractal, no other mode activated and no settings like number of opponents changed from the default setting.
     
  5. Deadly Dog

    Deadly Dog Warlord

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    In contradiction of this earlier post I came across this today:
    Construction on start .jpg

    And yes I could research it first, though it might take a while.....

    Kupe cheats.jpg

    So although it would be nice not really feasible to research construction at this point. Really won't matter as I settled next to Aztecs unknowingly and didn't have enough gold to send a delegation.
     
    hhhhhh and borad like this.
  6. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    It actually speeds up instead of slow down tech/civic speeds. Previously you have to research most techs in order to advance on trees, while in the shuffle mode many tech/civics become leaf tech/civics that you can ignore.
     
  7. FedorWin

    FedorWin Chieftain

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    Found a bug: in hotseat mode after a human player finds where political philosophy is (and, I would assume, any other tech/civic that unlocks lots of stuff), its frame becomes thicker for every other human player, even if it’s not revealed. Since it’s the only “big” civic in classical, it becomes easily guessable.

    Although, to be fair, since randomisation is the same for every civ in a game, the mod itself is not great conceptually for hotseat.
     
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  8. Big Earth

    Big Earth Chieftain

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    I had a lot of fun playing this. I researched techs that I would have normally skipped and was happy some that previously were required to go forward didnt even need to be touched. Would recommend!
     
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  9. Ohmi

    Ohmi Chieftain

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    I'm enjoying it very much. I like Secret Societies with it quite a bit. I've had interesting choices and chokepoints to consider, all entertaining. Early aggressive starts that don't rely so much on a specific path are always tempting, like a warrior/vampire rush. It's fun to deduce unrevealed techs that can let you make better choices than the AI sooner. I may be pushing it here, but if as an additional flags we could have the passive effects and/or wonders randomized in the trees as well; well, that might be interesting.
     
  10. Broccolini

    Broccolini Chieftain

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    I ran into funky civic tree in my current game that has led to what I think is a government policy slot bug. As it so happens, I've been able to research Monarchy which has a Diplomatic Policy slot before researching any civic that unlocks a Diplomatic Policy card. When I attempt to fill out as much of the government as I can, I can't finalize because my DP slot is empty. My plan to work around this bug is to shift-enter every turn until I get Recorded History, but someone who doesn't know that workaround would be very frustrated they couldn't finish this game.

    Side note: With civic shuffle it's also possible to unlock a Tier 2 government before any Tier 1 government, because that makes sense!
     

    Attached Files:

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  11. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    Maybe in the previous case, Iron Working has two prerequisite namely both Sailing and Irrigation (or even just one, Irrigation), the UI is confusing.

    And now that you can beeline Construction, maybe it a good time for Māori domination. Toās are really strong. Get Mining first, mine a resource to find Wheel, get Wheel and build a Water Mill. Then just put all your science on Construction and build warriors like there's no tomorrow.
     
  12. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

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    "Subtle but still exciting" doesn't fill me with hope for things like Corporations, Ideologies or other such late game additions.
     
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  13. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    Making a blanket statement like this is completely pointless. It depends entirely on the randomized trees you get.
     
  14. EmJayLambert

    EmJayLambert Chieftain

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    Divine Right, the ultimate Gateway Civic 20200831_163146.jpg
     
  15. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Yeah, some games it will speed things up. If you get that case where it's a 2-civic leap to Political Philosophy, you can zoom ahead there and backfill later while skipping more civics. But like that Divine Right game there or others, you might end up with a game serious gate-kept by a tech or civic. Like I started a game over the weekend, but basically all 3 base techs led into Irrigation, which became a pre-req for all other ancient era techs. Means it's a long time to sailing or archery or writing or anything else. And for me it was even slower since my only farmable resource was across a bay, but sailing was after irrigation, so I had no chance for getting the eureka. Makes for a very slow early portion of the game in that case.
     
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  16. oedali

    oedali King

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    I agree, in my experience it has made research considerably slower on average and harder to get to what I "want". For example yesterday I was playing Greece and wanted to use the free wildcard slot to use the GP card from Myticism. But my tree was opposite of the "gateway" tree - Mysticism had like 5-6 prerequisites and literally all other Ancient era civics had to be unlocked to get to it!! Needless to say my strategy totally failed
     
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  17. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    That is a real bummer. If you play with no mods, you should probably report this in the bug thread as a bug and provide a save file. They either should improve shuffling so as to prevent such kind of things, or at least provide blank policy cards to fill in temporarily.
     
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  18. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    I've completed one game and started another (both deity, standard, continents&islands, no other modes). The beginning of the game can be turned upside down and the excitement is magnified 10 times or so :) You're knocked out of your rut (if you had one) so hard. All the given eurekas and inspirations may not be so given any more. PP by t60 you say? Good luck, lol. On the other hand, for the 2nd game in a row I'm kinda not stressed about running into X-bows by t70. If Machinery is deep, it is deep for you too, Mr AI :)
    Also, deep Mercenaries means that I'm upgrading my archers into my late-ish x-bows for the full price, mostly. Outch. Also, opportunities for card swap in for 1 turn and then swap out next turn may not be there at an opportune moment.
    Spoiler :




    Facing AI GC as an aggressive neighbour for the first time. Goodness me, what a pain that extra movement of theirs is in such terrain, I forgot and was reminded hard about it, after he declared. Under the default tree he would probably be sending crossbows against me already, but now we shall see :)


    Civics:






    However, speaking from the experience of one shuffled game, I suspect that the general malaise of Civ 6 remains in the shuffled mode as well. Start to mid game decisions and actions are exciting and important, mid-game you make the finishing touches to your juggernaut of a civilization, mid to late game sentiment is - aaargh, nothing matters anymore, you fortify, you fortify, fortify, go to sleep, go to sleep, just die, can I press "next 10-turns", jeez, give me that victory screen already! All the shuffled tree can do is to delay it a bit. Past the starting turns, AI still cannot pose you any existential threats.
    And the Diplo Victory will likely offer you an earlier chance to finish even under the default disaster setting of 2. AI started to neglect Lady Liberty too much, you hardly need any pick-up (bee-)lines to woo her ;)
     
  19. oedali

    oedali King

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    I have been using shuffle mode along with @Infixo 's Real Eurekas mod which also randomizes eurekas/inspirations and must say I have never enjoyed the game this much since release! I agree the early game suspense is >10x magnified! I play the religious domination game on Deity and I must say it has become extremely hard to secure an early religion. (last night after 4 failed attempts and game restarts I even considered dropping down a difficulty for the first time since 2016) What happens is, you don't know where Astrology is and with my luck it was usually in the last column. With Real Eurekas, the eurekas are extremely hard to get (i.e. no way I'll manage to build a tobacco plantation in first few turns to boost Astrology) which means I am researching everything regularly meanwhile the AI is getting their Deity bonuses and unlocks Astrology way before me. Couple with the fact that most AI get golden ages after turn 40-50 and go for Exodus, it has become very rare to win the GP race despite laser focusing on holy site and running prayers constantly. Only my 5th try I was able to found a religion and that depended on getting lucky and having Astrology in the 2nd column, choosing the right lucky path, playing Poland and thus using the free wildcard slot for the Prophet card. (also lucky to find Mysticism early) In short, if you're pursuing a specific strategy, it is now even more challenging to get all the stars aligned. Furthermore with the subtle AI fixes, they are rushing me with Missionaries a lot more early on so I'm having to make strategic choices where to go peaceful and where to declare war to stop them. Loving this new level of challenge.
     
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  20. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    One thing I seem to be noticing is that often its easier to beeline interesting wonders on shuffle mode. For example, Macchu Picchu... Not sure if its my imagination but the AI doesn't neccessarily research in the ways you might expect leaving some wonders available for longer...
     

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