The all new, totally accepted, bigotry thread - "Blame a Christian"

[JollyRoger]

So are the 99% really just whiners?

Well, given that most of the 99% are Christians, then it seems that would be a reasonable conclusion to make.

 

[Leoreth]

If you take it as 'there's no such thing as a perfect human', it makes good sense. If nothing else, thinking that you've never slipped up or have no character flaws demonstrates a frankly sinful level of arrogance.

It's often employed to rationalize why even infants are sinners, which your explanation doesn't really accomodate for.

In my life, people aren't all I have... and I thank God for that! I'd off myself in a minute if people were all I had... quite depressing, people.

Ugh, if that's really the motivation behind being a theist for most, I certainly feel sorry for you. How sad.

 

[ShahJahanII]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5jnqEyUs4

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

If you take it as 'there's no such thing as a perfect human', it makes good sense. If nothing else, thinking that you've never slipped up or have no character flaws demonstrates a frankly sinful level of arrogance.

That isn't the point. The idea that the entire human race could be responsible for A&E's little crime is absurd. We all have character flaws. None of us deserve eternal torment, and we certainly don't deserve to be judged for our natural shortcomings.

 

[Flying Pig]

It's often employed to rationalize why even infants are sinners, which your explanation doesn't really accomodate for.

That's only because those people are idiots. Regret to inform that a religion comprising 75% of a nation's people can expect to contain 75% of its mind-numbingly stupid ones.

 

[ParkCungHee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5jnqEyUs4

One of the stupidest moments in recent television history.

 

[Traitorfish]

Well, I guess to explain my reasoning, I should explain my take on the God is Dead bit.

So, I understand that not to be a declarative statement by Nietzsche, but a recognition of an existant fact: That Christianity no longer inspires confidence as a worldview in the west, despite the large number of people who cling to it out of tradition. No one anywhere would be motivated to do something because god wills it.

However, in keeping with the article you linked to. Nietzsche recognized that destroying the philosophical and intellectual basis of the west was a big fracking deal. While he certainly was glad that Christianity was going away, he recognized that nobody was working on anything really to replace it. Hence his need to create a morality system independent of God, or any other absolute arbiter.

He warned that if we didn't do this, we'd fall into Nihilism. The death of god leads to a loss of universal perspective, and reason for anything. Dawkins seems to be the exact thing he's talking about.

He talks about materialism, but isn't very good at it, and doesn't seem to have any profound faith in it. He muddles about with some idealism, and vaguely looks to some capital-S-science to guarantee what he knows, which as you say, is unreformed bourgeois liberalism, complete with unconscious inclusions of the Christian morality Nietzsche disliked so much. He putters along with no meaningful worldview. He is a social commentator with no real social goal. He simply accepts his Bourgeois Liberal world because he lacks the courage to believe in anything else.

Interesting stuff. (I'm afraid I've really only studied Nietzsche in reference to somebody else ("this is why Nietzsche thinks Socrates is an ass", "this is why Nietzsche thinks Descartes is an ass", etc.), so I don't really have a good grasp on his overall philosophy. I actually have a book on him sitting on my desk, so this thread came just a week too early for me. .)

 

[_random_]

That isn't the point. The idea that the entire human race could be responsible for A&E's little crime is absurd.

Which is one pretty specific idea about original sin that isn't held to among all Christians.

One of the stupidest moments in recent television history.

When I become rich, I'm going to buy copies of The Genesis of Science in bulk to hand out/mail to people who say/make things like that.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Interesting stuff. (I'm afraid I've really only studied Nietzsche in reference to somebody else ("this is why Nietzsche thinks Socrates is an ass", "this is why Nietzsche thinks Descartes is an ass", etc.), so I don't really have a good grasp on his overall philosophy. I actually have a book on him sitting on my desk, so this thread came just a week too early for me. ;crazyeye

So come back in a week. The nice part about an internet forum is the conversation isn't going to go anywhere.

 

[Agent327]

I imagine it'd be on account of Dawkins' Sklavenmoral. The reevaluation of all morals was supposed to replace Christianity and master-slave morality with something better

Sklavenmoral (slave morality) is what Nietzsche uses to describe Christian morality. (The term was coined by Nietzsche, in Genealogie der Moral, I believe.) So I am curious as to how Nietzsche´s ideas are to be used to discredit Dawkins´ apparent atheism. Not that Nietzsche seemed to be thinking as atheism replacing Christianity...

 

[Traitorfish]

When I become rich, I'm going to buy copies of The Genesis of Science in bulk to hand out/mail to people who say/make things like that.

In the mean time, you can just buy one, and hit them with it. Less effective, but the spirit is there.

 

[ParkCungHee]

When I become rich, I'm going to buy copies of The Genesis of Science in bulk to hand out/mail to people who say/make things like that.

The thing that bugs me most is how implicitly racist, or at least Eurocentric such views are. The fact that East Asia, India and the Americas were unaffected by these Dark Ages is irrelevant. Human progress exists only in the European context, so if only Christianity hadn't beset those most capable of scientific progress, things would be fine.

 

[peter grimes]

I'd off myself in a minute if people were all I had... quite depressing, people.

Either you're exaggerating (which I sincerely hope to be the case) or you need to see a medical professional immediately. If you sincerely believe this there is very likely a treatable chemical imbalance in your brain. Depression and suicidal tendencies are treatable conditions - you don't have to live with those thoughts. There are tons of resources on the internet where you can find help (even for free if you don't have health insurance).

Seriously, we're not joking about this: if you really feel that way you need to see someone immediately. It's not normal, and it's not your fault!

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

There seems to be a strong link between misanthropy and conservative Christianity.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

There seems to be a strong link between misanthropy and conservative Christianity.

Hey now! I'm a misanthrope and I don't consider myself conservative at all!

 

[Arakhor]

Hey now! I'm a misanthrope and I don't consider myself conservative at all!

Of course not. That would be mainstream.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Of course not. That would be mainstream.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The thing that bugs me most is how implicitly racist, or at least Eurocentric such views are. The fact that East Asia, India and the Americas were unaffected by these Dark Ages is irrelevant. Human progress exists only in the European context, so if only Christianity hadn't beset those most capable of scientific progress, things would be fine.

Only it is not so clearcut as that. Many scholars who advanced civilization during that period were indeed clergy because they were the ones who controlled all the institutions of higher learning and had the time and funding to pursue it.

The RCC was quite dogmatic and very slow to accept the scientific method and those whose discoveries defied their beliefs of how the world supposedly worked. While there were a few exceptions, the RCC did much to slow scientific progress ever since the persecution of Galileo.

They continued that policy until they finally got tired of advances in science repeatedly proving their religious dogma to be so much nonsense, which required them to eventually modify it. They finally took a much more rational approach by accepting science instead of fighting it to a large extent, but that was only after centuries of holding back scientific progress in any area which conflicted with their official religious views.

But I would agree that we really don't know what progress would have been made without the RCC, or how much further ahead or behind we would not be without them. They did provide the infrastructure which largely made those advances possible.

 

[timtofly]

Well, I guess to explain my reasoning, I should explain my take on the God is Dead bit.

So, I understand that not to be a declarative statement by Nietzsche, but a recognition of an existant fact: That Christianity no longer inspires confidence as a worldview in the west, despite the large number of people who cling to it out of tradition. No one anywhere would be motivated to do something because god wills it.

However, in keeping with the article you linked to. Nietzsche recognized that destroying the philosophical and intellectual basis of the west was a big fracking deal. While he certainly was glad that Christianity was going away, he recognized that nobody was working on anything really to replace it. Hence his need to create a morality system independent of God, or any other absolute arbiter.

He warned that if we didn't do this, we'd fall into Nihilism. The death of god leads to a loss of universal perspective, and reason for anything. Dawkins seems to be the exact thing he's talking about.

He talks about materialism, but isn't very good at it, and doesn't seem to have any profound faith in it. He muddles about with some idealism, and vaguely looks to some capital-S-science to guarantee what he knows, which as you say, is unreformed bourgeois liberalism, complete with unconscious inclusions of the Christian morality Nietzsche disliked so much. He putters along with no meaningful worldview. He is a social commentator with no real social goal. He simply accepts his Bourgeois Liberal world because he lacks the courage to believe in anything else.

There seems to be a strong link between misanthropy and conservative Christianity.

Western/Conservative Christianity is not misanthropic, but a reaction to the changing culture around them, that slipped by in their complacent western acceptance of the changing culture. Christian influence can only go so far. Fighting back to regain a foothold in culture is not the way to go about it. Whining about it is not the way to go about it. Setting the example is the only way, but it is not guaranteed to produce results. The problem with Christianity, is that they expect results and jump ship when it does not happen. Having free speech does not help matters, because while they can state their opinion, they cannot expect others to accept their opinion. There is no problem with one running for public office. The democratic process does not supercede the will of God. God is still in control of who wins and the democratic process still works, even if the Christian does not get elected. If Christianity looses all influence, it was not because Christians became complacent and let it happen. It was because God willed it to happen. I do not claim to know God's will, but just stating that Christians have about as much influence over it as any one does. God's Will is always done, even in man's free exercise thereof.

 

[Akka]

The thing that bugs me most is how implicitly racist, or at least Eurocentric such views are. The fact that East Asia, India and the Americas were unaffected by these Dark Ages is irrelevant. Human progress exists only in the European context, so if only Christianity hadn't beset those most capable of scientific progress, things would be fine.

Hey, we were nice enough to give the rest of the world a headstart of a few centuries of dark ages, followed by a few centuries of religious stupidity, and we still managed to bridge up the gap and come out on top.
You can't blame us if they spent 1500 years twidling their thumbs !

God's Will is always done, even in man's free exercise thereof.

Considering the staggering amount of evil that happened in the world, we can safely conclude that God is really one spiteful bastard.