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The American police state

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Neomega, Jun 23, 2012.

  1. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    The Netherlands according to Fox. It's chaos. I live in fear of either the immigrants or drug-barons or prostitutes.
     
  2. del62

    del62 Chieftain

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    This is a false statement, private detectives were paid to hack phones.


    While it of course possible to get corrupt policemen, if you have proper procedures for accessing this information, then such practices become very difficult.

    Far better and less risky to pay a private eye.
     
  3. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    Wait a minute, in this very same book you are quoting, I seem to remember a man named Jesus Christ that was ONLY "doing good" Do you recall what happened to that man in this book?

    He was whipped to shreds and crucified.

    And I have refrained myself from posting thousands of links of horrible things that happen to good people every day from the police in the United States. These are not just isolated incidents.

    I don't understand why you quoted this passage. It is talking about the powers of God. The police are not the powers of God. They are the powers of man.

    Last year, 680,000 people in New York City were accosted, and stopped from their daily lives by people with guns and the authority and blessing of the state to use them, as well as the right to take money and subject these people to a court system which costs even more money. 90% These people had done nothing wrong, except look suspicious.

    680,000 people in one city alone. So no, it isn't just paranoia. And if it wasn't for people like me and the ACLU, who are "paranoid", it would be left to people like you to determine whether this is an acceptable practice. So these kinds of things must be fought, and brought to the public consciousness, and it is unfortunately a never ending battle, because people with attitudes like yours simply don't care.
     
  4. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    Wrong.

    Here is a frontline documentary on the subject:
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/murdochs-scandal/

    He was not just using private detectives, the scandal heavily involved the police departments in the UK.

    Again, at least watch the documentary I posted.


    And while I am at it, I will mention this about the police state:

    People seem to think the police are for the most part, incorruptible, and only a small minority are the "bad apples"

    The fact is, police lie, all the time. Especially when they are writing their police reports. It is only because people have cameras now that expose the frauds of their reports.

    I know from experience. And again, I could post 1,000 links to youtube videos where police said the direct opposite of what happened in the video.

    People seem to think corruption is an officer taking a manilla envelope stuffed with $100 bills. While that is rare, (as civil asset forfeiture is a more sideways and legal way of doing it), the real corruption happens when their jobs are on the line, and they have a choice: either lie on the report, or be reprimanded.
     
  5. del62

    del62 Chieftain

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    I can't watch that documentary as I do not live in the US, but I have watched a lot of news on this isuue by those critical of the NOW, I have also watched parts of the Leveson inquiry.

    The criticism of the police was not that they hacked phones for the NOW as you claimed, but that while they had evidence they failed to properly investigate the practices of the NOW, because of the cosy relation between the police and press.
     
  6. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    You can't watch PBS.org videos in the UK? Seriously?

    As early as 2003, Rebekah Brooks, editor of News of the World, was paying the police for information on people. And what was particularly odious about this, was she admitted it to some investigative board in England looking into the claims, but claimed it was legal, and that was that... ...and for the next EIGHT YEARS nothing was done about it.

    So, in 2003, Brooks says it was legal, nothing is done, but you are going to claim that 2003 was the last time it ever happened? I think not.
     
  7. del62

    del62 Chieftain

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    And how does this support your claim that Murdoch's former NOW paid the police to hack someones phone?

    Of course there should have been an investigation at the time, but there wasn't, because nobody picked up on this snippet in a dreary meeting into press ethics in the house of commons.

    We don't know the information passed and this is now subject to a criminal investigation, in which both journalists and police officers are under investigation.

    There is no reason why the NOW would pay the police to hack someones phone, when many journalists can do it themselves.
     
  8. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    Nobody picked up on it? Nobody picked up on it? What about the board that heard the testimony? WHY DIDN'T THEY PICK UP ON IT? Isn't that exactly what they were there for?

    :confused:
    "Now subject"? It was eight years ago. And what's this "we don't know the information passed"

    Why should it even matter what information was passed? Why are you trying justify this? What is your angle? She admitted to paying police for information. I was not aware it was the police departments' business to sell information.


    Ok, fine, I was wrong, they did not pay police to directly hack phones. They paid them for information. Information, which should not have been for sale, because the police are not information brokers.
     
  9. MjM

    MjM Chieftain

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    The police in America wield too much power. This has always been true, but the Internet and personal recording devices as well as personal media has just made the issue more well-known.
     
  10. ghostmaker650

    ghostmaker650 Chieftain

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    I'd just like to point out that those cameras do not and can not target speeders or red light runners. There are no cameras that are used to detect and ticket speeders. And the only ones that ticket red light runners are the big box cameras attached to the ground that flash and take still pictures, which are accompanied by the required red light camera warning signs everywhere.
     
  11. del62

    del62 Chieftain

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    There are speed cameras (at least in the UK), these and red light cameras are different from surveillance cameras though.
     
  12. Neomega

    Neomega Chieftain

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    There are also "talking" cameras in the UK, which "scold offenders for anti-social behaviour"

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6524495.stm

    Even though there is something inherently creepy about them, the BBC passes them off as wonderful, packaging it as a way to fight littering.

    But I would find it very hard to believe they have not been used to bust pot dealers, or prostitutes, or a host of other victimless crimes.

    Just like all the other surveillance techniques. They are packaged as something to fight crimes or behaviors everybody can agree need to be stopped, but they are inevitably used to do anything the government sees fit to protect its own interest.
     
  13. Algeroth

    Algeroth 8 and 1/2

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    But- But your fascist regime euthanize like millions of you each year!
     
  14. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Well, our doctors really.

    Which I also fear.
     
  15. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    Well, both of those are illegal, so I don't know what's so bad.

    Also, you keep on using the "stop and frisk" activity as an example. Just because it applies to a city doesn't mean it applies to a country.
     
  16. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    The higher powers in this passage is the civil authorities. Yes Jesus was tortured, but he still allowed the civil authorities to punish him, so he knew what was going to happen. Not once did he proclaim his rights or any of that. You must remember that this was written when being a Christian was a case of death and yet we have Paul stating we should be subject to those in power. So we are due to pay our respect to the current government of the day, even if you don't agree with it.
     
  17. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    Do you think that Russian Christians living under Stalin should have cooperated with the violent repression of Christian churches?
     
  18. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    If you aren't happy with the current state of affairs (I'm honestly not), you can either protest or live with it. But if you protest, remember that if you call America a police state, the opposition won't be willing to compromise.
     
  19. del62

    del62 Chieftain

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    Yeah because pot dealers and prostitutes are going to go about there business in front of surveillance cameras, especially talking ones.

    I hope you can reply but I fear you may be locked up for criticising the police state,
     
  20. Saxony

    Saxony Chieftain

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    Have you even seen the prisons in Norway? Thay are rated like 2.5-3 stars hotels! The people the have evrything, so I don't even consider prisons here as a punishment.
     

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