You can set your watch by 'em. "Trying to overthrow the government to install a far-right regime? Nah, just harmless patriots protesting for freedom! Antifa are the real fascists, with their *checks notes* milkshakes?"
Textbook projection.
planned coup prevented in Germany
- Thread starter The_J
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Textbook projection.
Hopefully there won't be attempts to communal-guilt-charge AFG as a whole and put them behind bars. Banning parties isn't very democratic.
Not that I view AFG as a non-trash party, it's just that dictatorial rules aren't going to improve anything nor solve a problem.
Not that I view AFG as a non-trash party, it's just that dictatorial rules aren't going to improve anything nor solve a problem.
DaggerDigwillow
Reading: Second World Wars by Victor Davis Hanson
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Are you fabricating arguments in your own head and then attributing them to me or is this business for you as usual?
Really love when people have to make straw-man arguments to deflect the valid points being made. Even more amusing when the comments follow each other in an echo chamber.
On the one hand, you have a documented example of death threats, doxing home addresses of 53 sitting government officials, with detailed bomb-making instructions being published to an organized extremist far-left terrorist organization website while on the other you have 25 people tangentially accused of plotting to overthrow the government (apparently by magic) under what at best is dubiously politically motivated and advantageous accusations. If they are guilty then, by all means, lock them up but you will never convince me to outweigh the absurdity of claiming 25 people most of which were outside of the country posed a legitimate threat of overthrowing the German government. This is even more amusing than the claims that the most armed population on earth decided to pose an unarmed insurrection on Jan 6th. Applying the principle of "cui bono" would solve most of the conspiratorial paranoia nonsense like this on both sides of the political aisle.
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amadeus
Serenity now
Okay. I’ll concede this to you because I neither the time nor inclination to look into this too deeply.
This on the other hand, I kind of doubt—what in the heck traction is the German government going for in finding a bunch of kooky balloons like this? Speculating on my part but I don’t think Germany is in such bad shape its politicians need to fabricate a coup attempt to shore up domestic political support.
If I had to take a crack at it I’d say probably not paying taxes. Gubmit likes their monies!
Quoting this again.
As I lamented, they don’t even have a real Hohenzollern! What kind of gutter kaiserreich is this, what a bunch of lameos.
DaggerDigwillow
Reading: Second World Wars by Victor Davis Hanson
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Germany Steps Up Preparations for Emergency Gas Rationing
Germany is stepping up preparations for a gas emergency that would require rationing for the country’s biggest companies this winter as Russia’s squeezes flows to Europe.
www.bloomberg.com
Some 34% of Germany's crude oil came from Russia in 2021, BAFA data showed.
Factbox: How dependent is Germany on Russian gas?
Russia has warned it may shut off its main Nord Stream gas pipeline to Germany after Berlin halted approval of a second line across the Baltic Sea in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
www.reuters.com
Unlike France which pursued a nuclear energy policy and is now largely independent and insulated from Russia's Oil Market thanks to its 74.5% nuclear energy, Germany decided to go the opposite way announcing a phase-out plan for nuclear which makes up only 13%.
Electricity sector in France - Wikipedia
Electricity sector in Germany - Wikipedia
Germany ironically did this so it could put all its eggs in renewable energy policies that largely flopped and continues to rely on a combination of coal and natural gas mostly from Russia.
Germany’s Dependence On Russian Gas Coincided With Drop In Wind Investment
Germany was once a leader among European nations in the development of wind energy, but after 2015 it curtailed wind investment as it relied increasingly on natural gas imported from Russia.
www.forbes.com
You don't have to think very hard to realize why Germany would be wanting scapegoats right about now
Germans told to unite over energy crisis amid EU divisions
Germany can weather a winter gas shortage caused by Russia's war on Ukraine provided companies and households pull together, Chancellor Olaf Scholz said on Tuesday ahead of a meeting of EU ministers divided over the best response to the energy crisis.
www.reuters.com
amadeus
Serenity now
What about its polite oil?
Farm Boy
run boy run
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Expecting our political opponents to have cogent reasoning?
Spoiler Ha! :
Surely they're incapable of it.
Thankfully, the coup orchestrators seemed incompetent in planning their little surprise. Also, a coup is doomed to fail, if you have no control over the armed forces, police, courts and so on. I also take it they had no support from the 83m people living in Germany, apart from the far-right crackpots.
amadeus
Serenity now
Hey! I am not a far-right crackpot German.
EnglishEdward
Deity
And what is more the coup organisers (whether they be undercover state agents or genuine
eccentrics) must know all that, which means that either way it is little more than political theatre.
amadeus
Serenity now
Subblimpmarines.
Farm Boy
run boy run
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Unless you're an eccentric.
That's not how any of that works...
You are talking about fringe lunatics who have lost their sense of reality. They are way off the deep end in regard to conspiracy theories. These kind of people don't think rational, they are convinced that the government needs to be gone and that the people want them to do a coup. Claiming that the coup organizers "must have known that it would fail" is as reasonable as saying that people "must have known that Trump didn't actually mean what he said" when a) he did mean it in almost every case, and b) said people very much understood it the way he meant it and followed up on his words more and more often. We aren't talking about people who hold sane views here. Stating that they must have known that it would fail is flat our incorrect. As is any assumption that this is merely a political game. The latter sounds more like the usual excuse someone would use when people aligned to his side did something that didn't work. Why reign in the crazy people on your side when you can just proclaim it to be a false flag and turn it into a political attack against the opponent? I mean, just because it would be the decent and democratic thing to do doesn't mean you have to do it...
Beyond that, the coup attempts that are done by people who know they have very little chance of success are rare. For the most part they are convinced they have the necessary support, or that people will jump on the opportunity to join in once someone dared to make the first move. The times were this isn't the case, a coup is usually attempted because something had to be done even if it would fail (e.g. the 1944 coup attempt against Hitler, or the last ditch barely worthy of the name coup-attempt attempt against Erdogan). But even there failure was not a foregone conclusion, merely highly likely.
amadeus
Serenity now
My choice for King of Prussia, Chancellor of Germany (respectively)
(They look like a good team.)
Ohhhhhhh yeaaaaaah.
(They look like a good team.)
Ohhhhhhh yeaaaaaah.
Instead of focusing on 25 people and their associates, and some descendant of the prussian monarchy, maybe look at the plans to have an Eu which includes 30 or 36 countries, which seems to be what Germany is pushing for.
I doubt they want this due to a desire for uniting Europe (it's a joke), but it is highly likely they try to replenish the lost market in Russia with countries like Albania, Bosnia, Ukraine etc.
Unless they are willing to pay a trillion or so euros to Poland, they will need new supporters to carry on the hegemony, meanwhile, no one can seriously expect a coherent Eu with all those countries, when it is a pitiful mess already.
I doubt they want this due to a desire for uniting Europe (it's a joke), but it is highly likely they try to replenish the lost market in Russia with countries like Albania, Bosnia, Ukraine etc.
Unless they are willing to pay a trillion or so euros to Poland, they will need new supporters to carry on the hegemony, meanwhile, no one can seriously expect a coherent Eu with all those countries, when it is a pitiful mess already.
The European Union achieved its two main objectives; lasting peace between its member states and economic as well as social prosperity via trade and frictionless exchange of workforce and capital across borders. Of course I can think of improvements that could be made, but overall the EU has been a remarkable succes. Almost 80 years of continuos peace among the greater European powers; that has never happened before since the nation states first formed.
Fippy
Mycro Junkie
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Didn't make the news much in Germany anyways, which shows us how unimportant this whole thing was.
(sure there were some reports..but they are already gone and nobody talks about it)
Far-right crackpots exist in all countries, they do stupid things and are usually caught by police.
Much more dangerous are violent groups harming innocents, while disappearing into the night again.
(sure there were some reports..but they are already gone and nobody talks about it)
Far-right crackpots exist in all countries, they do stupid things and are usually caught by police.
Much more dangerous are violent groups harming innocents, while disappearing into the night again.
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