The Cold War...

[W|M]

The Soviets certainly had more liking for blacks than Americans.

 

[aronnax]

At least on an official level, black people were better treated in Europe and the USSR than black people in the US. They had equal rights, no segregation etc.

 

[Traitorfish]

Thanks for demonstrating how the Soviets can stage a photo.

So you're arguing that the Soviets were secretly white supremacists, or...?

 

[Yeekim]

Or being black. Or Asian. Or Hispanic. Or a woman. Or gay. Or transgender. Or mentally ill. Ad nauseum.

You are aware that homosexuality was considered a criminal offense in USSR?

Thanks for demonstrating how the Soviets can stage a photo.

Black students from Soviet sphere routinely studied in Soviet universities. The regime as such definitely wasn't racist.
EDIT: Photograph of "University of Friendship of Nations named after Patrice Lumumba" is, of course, priceless!

Fun fact. Thousands of African Americans left the USA to go to the USSR because of the lack of racism towards them.

They were, at least, free to leave. Unlike citizens of USSR.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

Exactly. Lack of racism in the USSR.

First graduates of Peoples' Friendship University, 1965

I did. Ask me, if you are interested.

To the first photo: How is mixing races Communist?

and to the second, if blacks actually made 2 or more percent of the population, they would have faced awful discrimination. The reason they didn't is because the Soviet Union wanted to make a political statement and try to get people to leave the United States.

 

[Traitorfish]

You are aware that homosexuality was considered a criminal offense in USSR?

Yes, but I didn't realise that I was making a comparison between the USA and USSR. That may be where we're not seeing eye-to-eye.

and to the second, if blacks actually made 2 or more percent of the population, they would have faced awful discrimination.

What are you basing this on? Do you think that different racial groups are naturally in conflict with each other?

 

[Quackers]

At least on an official level, black people were better treated in Europe and the USSR than black people in the US. They had equal rights, no segregation etc.

I seriously doubt if the SU would of encouraged Africans to go to Russian universities and demonstrate their tolerance if it wasn't for the poor state of Blacks in the USA. It's just cynical propaganda to show the whole world how we treat "our blacks" to "your blacks" to try and gain a more favourable image of the SU. I don't think the SU cared at all about the plight of Blacks and people of African descent it was just to damage the USA and improve their own reputation.

 

[Crezth]

Isn´t that what I just did? And those pictures I know already; they don´t prove anything. As opposed to actual black people who have been in the USSR. And Jews not being allowed to emigrate. Etc. I asked for proof, I don´t see anything of the sort in your post. Russians have no more liking for blacks people than any other average white person. But I guess that didn´t show up in the Soviet media when you were happily working for the man...

So you think it's an inherent quality of white people to dislike blacks?

and to the second, if blacks actually made 2 or more percent of the population, they would have faced awful discrimination. The reason they didn't is because the Soviet Union wanted to make a political statement and try to get people to leave the United States.

What is your basis for saying this? Why is it assumed that the way the United States treats blacks is the normal way of doing things?

 

[Traitorfish]

I seriously doubt if the SU would of encouraged Africans to go to Russian universities and demonstrate their tolerance if it wasn't for the poor state of Blacks in the USA. It's just cynical propaganda to show the whole world how we treat "our blacks" to "your blacks" to try and gain a more favourable image of the SU. I don't think the SU cared at all about the plight of Blacks and people of African descent it was just to damage the USA and improve their own reputation.

I think you're being very one dimensional about this. There are two other important aspects, probably rather more important than this, and they have nothing to do with the US: First, the need of the USSR to establish itself as the leading "anti-imperialist" entity in world politics, which meant establishing good relations with third world and particularly post-colonial countries. Secondly, the more practical need of these countries for professionals and administrators, which the USSR was uniquely positioned to provide. In both cases, this is demonstrated by the fact that not merely blacks studied in the USSR, but East Asians, South and West Asians, Latin Americans, and Europeans. There was little anti-US propaganda to be had in hosting Bulgarians, Egyptians or Cubans, and yet they were hosted. (There's also the third fact, secondary as it may be, that a lot of people in both the USSR and in these countries were sincere internationalists, so it can't be understood as nothing more than an exercise in cynical realpolitik. That it only found expression because it suited the needs of the Soviet state doesn't make that less real, any more than, say, your monarchism is less sincere because it is permitted to find expression only insofar as it is convenient to the British state.)

Surprising as it may be to some of us, the USSR did not position itself wholly and exclusively as the nemesis of the United States, as if it was some video game baddy that stayed squatting in its cave until the player wanders up to fight it. You can't reduce it to that one dimension and come away with any halfway useful analysis.

 

[Godwynn]

They staged an entire economy so this was peanuts to them.

I 'd.

 

[Agent327]

So you think it's an inherent quality of white people to dislike blacks?

That doesn´t follow. But racism doesn´t stop at a nation´s border, whether that be a capitalist or a communist nation. And you are forgetting white people aren´t the only ones who are racist. That the USSR had no laws discriminating against race doesn´t imply much, other than the fact that it had no overseas colonial history (apart from the territories Russia once held across the Bering Straits).

 

[Behind The Mask]

That doesn´t follow. But racism doesn´t stop at a nation´s border, whether that be a capitalist or a communist nation. And you are forgetting white people aren´t the only ones who are racist. That the USSR had no laws discriminating against race doesn´t imply much, other than the fact that it had no overseas colonial history (apart from the territories Russia once held across the Bering Straits).

One doesn't have to have oversee territory in order to enact laws against any race that is within its borders.

Mind you, though they had no territories in Africa, Russia has a long history strewn with interactions of different ethnicities... Sibers, Turks, Finns, Poles, Chinese, Tatars, and so forth.

Mind you that their treatment at the times of the Russian Empire differed and cannot really be called good. But, in theory at least, the Soviet Government seemed progressive in its treatment of races; mind you, I used the term 'in theory'.

 

[red_elk]

And Jews not being allowed to emigrate.

I work in Toronto and personally know several Jews who emigrated from USSR. Two of them are my colleagues. In fact, Jews had more possibilities to emigrate if they wanted, than Russians, for instance.

I asked for proof, I don´t see anything of the sort in your post.

Proof of what? May be I missed something in your message.

Russians have no more liking for blacks people than any other average white person. But I guess that didn´t show up in the Soviet media when you were happily working for the man...

Equality of all people was a cornerstone of Soviet ideology. Of course there is also racism on a domestic level, but in the USSR it was low and it was condemned by society and ordinary people.

We (I mean, Soviet people) were taught since early childhood that
- All people must have equal rights regardless of their nationality or skin color.
- People must not be divided on rich and poor, there are no servants and masters.
The propaganda machine constantly worked to get these messages to the people.

To the first photo: How is mixing races Communist?

The people on the photo are protesting against race mixing in the USA, and they know that the Soviet ideology is anti-racist. Racial segregation was considered as normal in many countries back in 1950s-1960s.

and to the second, if blacks actually made 2 or more percent of the population, they would have faced awful discrimination.

This claim needs some backup. We had several percents of Asian population, many Gypsies and Caucasus inhabitants and there were no "awful discrimination" of them, at least while USSR existed.

 

[Ice_Tyrant]

I guess America I mean I don't think I really have any more desire to live in Europe in the Seventies than I would to live in Europe in the, uhh, now. I'm sure if I was born in France in 1992 and someone asked me in 2012 if I'd rather live in France or America in the 70's I'd probably pick France since it's what I'd know.

 

[Murky]

It would have been cool to have lived in someplace like France or Switzerland during the 70s.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I guess America I mean I don't think I really have any more desire to live in Europe in the Seventies than I would to live in Europe in the, uhh, now. I'm sure if I was born in France in 1992 and someone asked me in 2012 if I'd rather live in France or America in the 70's I'd probably pick France since it's what I'd know.

Honestly I voted for Western Europe rather out of nationalism and actualy prior to fall of an Empire of Evil I would imagine it would be actualy better live in USA but nowadays with Americans messing up all over the world and other domestic issues EU maybe better choice atm.

 

[Crezth]

That doesn´t follow. But racism doesn´t stop at a nation´s border, whether that be a capitalist or a communist nation. And you are forgetting white people aren´t the only ones who are racist. That the USSR had no laws discriminating against race doesn´t imply much, other than the fact that it had no overseas colonial history (apart from the territories Russia once held across the Bering Straits).

No, but racism in America is due largely in part to patterns of systematic discrimination and repression that was unique to that nation. Racial relations in Europe must be defined according to a completely different context than those in America, because the former didn't establish a large minority population by means of enslavement. They didn't have the cultural experience of actively oppressing that population.

 

[Patroklos]

Mind you that their treatment at the times of the Russian Empire differed and cannot really be called good. But, in theory at least, the Soviet Government seemed progressive in its treatment of races; mind you, I used the term 'in theory'.

No, not in theory. In theory and practice to likes of the Ukranians, Georgians, and Uzbeks the Soviets were pretty much genocidal. Then there are the Jews...

 

[Ajidica]

Wasn't the standard Soviet reponse to issues like this "And you are lynching blacks"?

 

[red_elk]

No, not in theory. In theory and practice to likes of the Ukranians, Georgians, and Uzbeks the Soviets were pretty much genocidal. Then there are the Jews...

Please provide evidences of intentional extermination of Ukrainians, Georgians and Uzbeks in the USSR, because of their ethnicity.
It is especially interesting for me, since I'm partially Ukrainian.
Not to mention that it's rarely possible to visually distinguish Ukrainian people from Russian or Belorussian.