The complaints of inflation are insane.

Could the Fed really stop the inflation with a (reasonable) increase of the interest rates? This would do nothing to increase supply (actually probably decrease supply, because less money is available for investing in supply increase) and probably decrease demand by a much small amount than the supply shortage.

It will not increase supply, but by kneecapping spending they can stop people from bidding prices up. Destroying the purchasing power of the working class to stop them from bidding prices up has been the historical approach to curbing inflation in the West.
 
I figure overspending is like taking steroids, if everyone is doing it you need to to compete but the endgame...

There's something to this when it comes to depreciation. But if the recommended strategy was actually a good one, then you'd see it happen.

Heck, Norway has a national wealth fund AND national debt.

Switzerland literally printed money to swap for US company shares, and they have national debt.

So, the alternative to "everyone is dumb" is "I'm missing something".

That said, I do agree that the interest on debt could be spent better elsewhere. We bribe the ultra rich to delay using their capital because we failed to tax it. Now, there's realpolitik, politics, and some economic theory behind those choices. But the interest itself is a bribe.
 
There's something to this when it comes to depreciation. But if the recommended strategy was actually a good one, then you'd see it happen.

Heck, Norway has a national wealth fund AND national debt.

Switzerland literally printed money to swap for US company shares, and they have national debt.

So, the alternative to "everyone is dumb" is "I'm missing something".

That said, I do agree that the interest on debt could be spent better elsewhere. We bribe the ultra rich to delay using their capital because we failed to tax it. Now, there's realpolitik, politics, and some economic theory behind those choices. But the interest itself is a bribe.
The understanding of most people in this thread of economics is way over my head but on a visceral level celebrating inflation and constantly trusting the future to be better than the past seems misguided. Whether it's worked or not up until now isn't so relevant.

I think almost all value isn't real, most 'productivity' is counterproductive & 90% of the economy is as nonsense as doggiecoins.

But I can't describe my opinions and I may well be wrong like the club of Rome continues to be wrong to this day.

On principle deficiet spending as a way of life seems wrong but who knows, life and complexity requires entropy, maybe economic growth requires more and more risk and we'll always make it up and then some. Time will tell.
 
Everybody says that printing trillions of dollars causes inflation, but in the 2008 Crash, we printed trillions of dollars into existence, but inflation did not occur. Deflation did. So I had to rethink what causes inflation and arrived at a new theory:

Inflation is caused by genies. Some central bankers around the world are cautious. Others have been rubbing the bottle for years. Suddenly the Inflation Genie has appeared!
I wish my debt problems will go away.



I thought the answer to this question depends on where the individual is on the economic scale. If you work for a wage that went up 3% this year, but your rent went up 10% and your food went up 15% and general inflation is running 7.5%, then obviously you are getting poorer. If inflation is running 7.5% but you have investments that made 27.5%, then you got a lot richer and the inflation is just a number.



In my opinion, as clear minded as indicated in the first two paragraphs of this post, there is a bill (to pay for the COVID shutdown) that needs to be paid somehow, but it is being passed around.
Inflation is running 7.5% and workers want a raise. They have some bargaining power, so they get it. Their employers are just going to pass the costs down to their customers.
So the line above keeps repeating in a spiral.

I think the last time we had a wage-price spiral was in the 1980's and it ended when we were able to force one party to pay the bill. I think we are in another wage-price spiral and it will continue until one party is forced to pay the bill.

Feel free to pick apart my theories! This discussion is intended as an exercise in education. :D
If by "pay the bill" you mean something really abstract.... When we had an oil shortage that lead to 3 years of inflation in 1979 (aka the 80s) Volcker raised rates and the bottom 20% suffered huge losses and never recovered. I guess they "paid the bill". Missing I think in your quasi real world example, missing in most of the complaints, is treating the stimulus/unemployment etc as an outside windfall but treating the wages/investment/inflation as the "inside" calculation. Your wages may have gone up 3% but you might have had subsidized unemployment for a year that was 200% your wages (I got 3x my income in late 2020/early 2021). We already explored the fixed income example above.

I suppose in my OP my argument is we can "pay the bill" either by having inflation spread out among all of us, or we can, as Lexicus puts it, kneecap a bunch of people into so much poverty they can't buy stuff, therefore cannot bid up prices. Do we shrink everyone's chair to match our smaller table, or do we remove chairs and kick people out of dinner?

I suppose in scarcity, experienced as inflation, someone will eventually get told "no" harder than the rest, per Farm Boy's point even with spread out inflation. We could tax the rich to oblivion and still have milk price increases, but at least maybe home prices will chill and chiller home prices will lead to more money leftover for expensive milk.
 
The understanding of most people in this thread of economics is way over my head but on a visceral level celebrating inflation and constantly trusting the future to be better than the past seems misguided. Whether it's worked or not up until now isn't so relevant.

I think almost all value isn't real, most 'productivity' is counterproductive & 90% of the economy is as nonsense as doggiecoins.

But I can't describe my opinions and I may well be wrong like the club of Rome continues to be wrong to this day.

On principle deficiet spending as a way of life seems wrong but who knows, life and complexity requires entropy, maybe economic growth requires more and more risk and we'll always make it up and then some. Time will tell.
I don't think anyone is really is really celebrating inflation, more just saying the solutions to the inflation itself are worse than the inflation itself.
 
You can't really 'celebrate inflation' until you figure out the main victims of the inflation.

I do think that we underplay how inflation and wage-inflation don't coordinate very nicely for the working people (and businesses) at the bottom. When someone says "the people who don't like it", chances are they're failing to notice the people for whom it's truly painful. Especially if we're triggering inflation by giving more money to the people at the top.

Like, that 7.5% inflation is after we've recalculated after re-balancing our basket of goods. And that's done one transaction at a time by a person who's struggling, for whom math isn't easy, and is finding out that their previous basket of goods is unaffordable. Inflation generated by putting in money at the bottom is a different type of pain as you sudden find out that your inferiors are able to compete with you on your purchases, and you have to decide between savings and stuff ( :lol: )
 
You can't really 'celebrate inflation' until you figure out the main victims of the inflation.

I do think that we underplay how inflation and wage-inflation don't coordinate very nicely for the working people (and businesses) at the bottom. When someone says "the people who don't like it", chances are they're failing to notice the people for whom it's truly painful. Especially if we're triggering inflation by giving more money to the people at the top.

Like, that 7.5% inflation is after we've recalculated after re-balancing our basket of goods. And that's done one transaction at a time by a person who's struggling, for whom math isn't easy, and is finding out that their previous basket of goods is unaffordable. Inflation generated by putting in money at the bottom is a different type of pain as you sudden find out that your inferiors are able to compete with you on your purchases, and you have to decide between savings and stuff ( :lol: )
Amartya Sen in Development as Freedom talks about unequal demand side inflation and its roles in famine. You can cause consumer goods inflation by giving to the top. Not so much in the USA, except maybe graphics cards, but there is historical precedent in the capitalist world.
 
Well this thread aged like milk.

But seriously now with Putin's invasion everything from gas, to wheat, to fertilizer is going up for everyone all over the world. All on top of the questionable and recovering economy we had as a result of covid.

Inflation complaints ain't so insane now!
 
Well this thread aged like milk.

But seriously now with Putin's invasion everything from gas, to wheat, to fertilizer is going up for everyone all over the world. All on top of the questionable and recovering economy we had as a result of covid.

Inflation complaints ain't so insane now!
I am not convinced. Petrol is still undervalued, even at the UK price of ~ $8-50/Gal. Wheat has gone up to ~$12/bushel (64 pints) from about $8 before this crisis. One bushel of wheat is ~65 million calories I think, so I make that only 12 cents for the wheat if you lived off wheat (2 million calories a day), or an increase of 4 cents. Is this 12 cents the problem? Fertiliser has gone up, but so has the price of what fertiliser makes (wheat for example) so where is the problem there?

I am not saying there are not real problems that real people face, but I am not convinced the headline price of wheat, crude oil or ammonium nitrate have much to do with those issues, in the US or UK at least. The main issue is disparity in what is being charged for services and what people are being paid for providing those services, and that is not really a problem caused by inflation.
 
They're saying food will go up thousands of dollars due to a poor harvest from lack of fertilizer and high diesel prices for all that farm machinery.

Not now, but next year.
 
A bu of wheat is about 40 loaves of bread.

But, if you are expecting the total cost of that bread to go up by the increase in the cost of the base ingredient rather than proportionally, I have bad news. The inputs for the base ingredient compete and are fungible with trucking... speculation... labor... taxes... everything.
 
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A bu of wheat is about 40 loaves of bread.

But, if you are expecting the total cost of that bread to go up by the increase in the cost of the base ingredient rather than proportionally, I have bad news. The inputs for the base ingredient compete and are fungible with trucking... speculation... labor... taxes... everything.

So bread is going to be extremely expensive next year?
 
Bread riots usually start in places like Egypt. I'd just pay attention. May delivery of soy just cleared 17 bucks a bu. It's all high and diesel is going higher. No spring work is started, yet.
 
Inflation is mostly caused by the Fed Interest Rate being 0.25%. This intentionally causes inflation by encouraging investments.

What's causing a big problem is that huge firms are borrowing money (at peanuts interest) to purchase real estate, driving up the cost of homes. This turns us more into a renter society than we already are, since land is owned by oligarchs and more people are tenants than homeowners.

Price fluctuations caused by supply issues are always transitory. We've seen it happen plenty of times.

But we can't keep the interest rate this low forever. At some point they'll have to increase it again or things are just going to keep getting crazy.

But the market keeps dropping, so they can't really raise the rate right now. It's a mess
 
Nah, because we know what caused the supply shortages (COVID)
 
Everything in my line of work was always essential as classified. Nobody got time off in 2020 thru now.
 
I'm talking about the war in Ukraine with all the wheat, fertilizer, and oil disruptions. As well as the potential for the conflict to spread.
If this is WW3 then I think we have other worries than inflation.
 
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