The Failure of America's Justice System

lordsurya08

class-A procrastinator
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Some background info:

The Westboro Baptist Church is a small family church based in Kansas. Widely described as a hate group, it fanatically condemns homosexuality and is widely knowing for picketing/protesting funerals, public events, and locations that they deem to be "offensive" and anti-Christian. They believe that they are the true Christian church and that the "regular" Christian churches are false.

Info from Wikipedia.

Spoiler :


On March 10, 2006, Westboro Baptist Church picketed the funeral of U.S. Marine Lance Corporal Matthew A. Snyder, who was killed in a non-combat-related vehicle accident in Iraq on March 3, 2006.[1][2] On March 8, WBC announced its intention of picketing the funeral in Westminister, Maryland. It earlier picketed funerals throughout the country in support of its belief that America is doomed because of its increasing tolerance of homosexuality. Picketers displayed placards such as "America is doomed", "You're going to hell", "God hates you", "Fag troops", "Semper fi fags" and "Thank God for dead soldiers".[3] Numerous members of the Patriot Guard were present in support of the Snyder family.[4] Some weeks later, WBC posted an "epic" on its website that denounced Albert Snyder and his ex-wife for raising their son Catholic, stating they "taught Matthew to defy his creator", "raised him for the devil" and "taught him that God was a liar".

Albert Snyder, Matthew Snyder's father, sued Fred Phelps, Westboro Baptist Church and two of Phelps's daughters, Rebekah Phelps-Davis and Shirley Phelps-Roper, for defamation, intrusion upon seclusion, publicity given to private life, intentional infliction of emotional distress and civil conspiracy.[5] The claim of defamation arising from comments posted about Snyder on the WBC website was dismissed, on the grounds that the contents were "essentially Phelps-Roper's religious opinion and would not realistically tend to expose the Plaintiff to public hatred or scorn".[6] The claim of publicity given to private life was similarly dismissed since no private information was made public by the Defendants: they learned that Snyder was divorced and his son was Catholic from the obituary in the newspaper. The case proceeded to trial on the remaining three counts.

The facts of the case were essentially undisputed at trial. Albert Snyder testified:
They turned this funeral into a media circus and they wanted to hurt my family. They wanted their message heard and they didn't care who they stepped over. My son should have been buried with dignity, not with a bunch of clowns outside.[7]

He described his emotional injuries, including that he has become tearful and angry and gets so physically nauseated that he vomits. He stated that the Defendants had placed a "bug" in his head, so that he cannot think of his son without thinking of their actions. He also said that "I want so badly to remember all the good stuff and so far, I remember the good stuff, but it always turns into the bad." He called several expert witnesses who testified that worsening of his diabetes and severe depression had resulted from the Defendants' activities.

In their defense, WBC established that they had complied with all local ordinances and had obeyed police instructions. The picket was held in a location cordoned off by the police, approximately 1000 feet from the Church, from which it could be neither seen nor heard. Mr. Snyder testified that, although he glimpsed the tops of the signs from the funeral procession, he did not see their content until he watched a news program on television later that day. He also indicated that he had found the offensive "epic" on WBC's website from a Google search.

In his instructions to the jury, Judge Richard D. Bennett for the District Court of Maryland stated that the First Amendment protection of free speech has limits, including vulgar, offensive and shocking statements, and that the jury must decide "whether the defendant's actions would be highly offensive to a reasonable person, whether they were extreme and outrageous and whether these actions were so offensive and shocking as to not be entitled to First Amendment protection."[8] WBC unsuccessfully sought a mistrial based on alleged prejudicial statements made by the judge and violations of the gag order by the plaintiff's attorney.[9] An appeal was also sought by the WBC.

On October 31, 2007, the jury found for the Plaintiff and awarded Snyder's father US$2.9 million in compensatory damages, later adding a decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and an additional $2 million for causing emotional distress (a total of $10.9 million).[10][11] The organization said it would not change its message because of the verdict.

On February 4, 2008, Bennett upheld the verdict but reduced the punitive damages from $8 million to $2.1 million. The total judgment then stood at $5 million. Court liens were ordered on church buildings and Phelps's law office in an attempt to ensure that the damages were paid.[12]

An appeal by WBC was heard on September 24, 2009. The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals reversed the jury verdict and set aside the lower court's $5 million judgment. The Fourth Circuit ruled that the lower court had erred by instructing the jury to decide a question of law rather than fact (specifically, whether or not the speech in question was protected by the First Amendment). It also ruled that the protest signs and language on WBC's website were rhetorical hyperbole and figurative expression, rather than assertions of actual fact, and so were a form of protected speech.[13][14] On March 30, 2010, the Court further ordered Albert Snyder to pay the court costs for the defendants, an amount totaling $16,510.[15] Political commentator Bill O'Reilly agreed on March 30 to cover the costs, pending appeal.[16]

[OMFG.]

A writ of certiorari was filed on March 8, 2010.[17] Arguments were heard beginning on October 13 with attorney Margie Phelps representing her family.[18][19][20]

In an 8-1 decision the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Phelps, upholding the Fourth Circuit's decision. Chief Justice John Roberts wrote the majority opinion stating "What Westboro said, in the whole context of how and where it chose to say it, is entitled to 'special protection' under the First Amendment and that protection cannot be overcome by a jury finding that the picketing was outrageous."[30]

OMFG AGAIN

The court's opinion also stated that the memorial service was not disturbed, saying, "Westboro stayed well away from the memorial service, Snyder could see no more than the tops of the picketers' signs, and there is no indication that the picketing interfered with the funeral service itself."[31] The decision also declined to expand the "captive audience doctrine", saying that Snyder was not in a state where he was coerced to hear the negative speech.

Justice Stephen Breyer wrote a concurring opinion, expressing a view on content-neutral restrictions on funeral protesting.

Justice Samuel Alito was the lone dissenting justice in this case, beginning his dissent with, "Our profound national commitment to free and open debate is not a license for the vicious verbal assault that occurred in this case." He concluded, "In order to have a society in which public issues can be openly and vigorously debated, it is not necessary to allow the brutalization of innocent victims like petitioner."




This is wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin. Unbelievably, Snyder ended up having to pay out of his own pocket, to add insult to injury!
 
if this leads to a reverse of the trends we saw with cases like Bong Hits 4 Jesus it's a good thing. That's what freedom of speech is about, and compared to most countries we really don't do so bad.

(plus like 10 times over duplicated topic...)
 
Old news. Do a search on it and read some of the posts by illram and JollyRoger (who are both lawyers). They lay out the reasoning of SCOTUS on Snyder v. Phelps and the SC decision seems alot more reasonable.
 
Westboro Baptist Church is a small price for freedom.
 
I don't see how this is a failure of the Justice system. It's a failure of the constitution. The Supreme court must uphold the constitution. Blame Madison and the others for their wording on the Bill of Rights.
 
I don't see how this is a failure of the Justice system. It's a failure of the constitution. The Supreme court must uphold the constitution. Blame Madison and the others for their wording on the Bill of Rights.

It's not a failure. The point of free speech is precisely to protect speech considered offensive by others.
 
I don't see how this is a failure of the Justice system. It's a failure of the constitution. The Supreme court must uphold the constitution. Blame Madison and the others for their wording on the Bill of Rights.

The Constitution is not meant to be taken that literally. The job of the Supreme Court is to uphold the spirit of the Constitution, not follow it to the word. Madison and Co. would not have wanted prats like the WBC doing their crap in our country.
 
It's not a failure. The point of free speech is precisely to protect speech considered offensive by others.

But this is not just offensive - this is emotional damage. I think that we can all agree that WBC did was wrong - so the justices in the Supreme Court should have used their discretion to draw the line between "offensive but protected" and "offensive and intending to cause harm".
 
But this is not just offensive - this is emotional damage. I think that we can all agree that WBC did was wrong - so the justices in the Supreme Court should have used their discretion to draw the line between "offensive but protected" and "offensive and intending to cause harm".

Yeah, offensive speech tends to be emotionally damaging to people. That's why they find it offensive.
 
The Constitution is not meant to be taken that literally. The job of the Supreme Court is to uphold the spirit of the Constitution, not follow it to the word. Madison and Co. would not have wanted prats like the WBC doing their crap in our country.

The holding of the Court in the case: "Speech on a public sidewalk, about a public issue, cannot be liable for a tort of emotional distress, even if the speech is found to be 'outrageous.'"

The 1st Amendment pretty much made it legally safe to be 'unpopular,' and that was the FF's intent in creating it. Additionally, this case comes in a long line of pro-speech outcomes by the Court.
 
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