The Good State of Offtopic

[Sommerswerd]

Well this turned into a celebration of all things ot alright.

Its the old adage/cliche that as soon as you observe that things are going good... that's the moment when everything goes to squat or g tits-up or whatever ...

To quote a very popular book:

For when people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them

 

[Hygro]

@Berzerker is the second most misunderstood poster after @r16

 

[Kyriakos]

I never had any issue with berzerker. Imo the forum has very few republicans. Now i personally view the republican party as ridiculous, corrupt and filled with loons, but that shouldnt allow dogpiling against forum posters.

 

[Senethro]

Telling a woman that a sexual encounter she described as non-consensual was in fact consensual meets the criteria for bullying imo.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I never had any issue with berzerker. Imo the forum has very few republicans. Now i personally view the republican party as ridiculous, corrupt and filled with loons, but that shouldnt allow dogpiling against forum posters.

Noteworthy comment...

Im in a cheeky mood so I'll leave it at that

 

[red_elk]

@Berzerker is the second most misunderstood poster after @r16

Nah, r16 is the not-understood one.

 

[Yeekim]

Nah, r16 is the not-understood one.

Indeed. To misunderstand someone requires at least some level of comprehension.

 

[Berzerker]

Telling absurd lies about what another poster "admitted" when people can just go back and look to see that it is a lie is really ridiculous, but so typical of you.

Lets go back and look

And when told by someone "I feel bullied here" I apply that same standard...and stop doing whatever I'm doing that makes them feel bullied. Unless my intent is to bully them further, in which case I make a note of what works on them and do it at every opportunity.

You bragged about bullying and stalking other posters

 

[red_elk]

It was my joke, why Yeekim getting all the likes for it?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You bragged about bullying and stalking other posters

I suppose it's an improvement when you quote what you are misrepresenting. Saves people the effort of going looking for it. Now all they have to do is decide if you think you can get away with a whopping lie, or if you are so stupid that you actually believe that what you quoted says what you claim it says.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

So prove she wasn't bullied.

Proving a negative is not a reasonable request in the context of an accusation of something happening.

It's my perception that I was asked to list the things that make me feel bullied in order to use them against me. It's happened before by people who acted concerned and sincere, and then turned on me.

Your perception isn't accurate. My purpose of arguing this at all is in defense of the posts in the relevant threads. It's up to you what you want to believe, but it's not possible to make a plausible claim of "bullying" with no self-consistent standard for what that means.

Then why did you?

I didn't, as you're repeatedly demonstrating by making false assertions and refusing to back them despite that it is supposedly possible to do so.

There's arguing, and there's arguing with the intention to hurt the other person.

By any reasonable standard, making false allegations is more harmful than pointing out when statements are inaccurate, unethical, or self-inconsistent. From the start, I've been discussing what is actually said, rather than manufacturing intent while refusing to address what is said (something both you and Mary have done with these posts).

What's the perceived motivation you're affixing to me? Even at face value the assertion that I have "intent to hurt" people I don't know by making arguments concentrated on the content of posts made is nonsense.

There is no false claim.

Posts claim bullying, but provide zero evidence for it. When asked to pin down what even constitutes bullying, there's an overt refusal to do so (despite it being necessary for the claim to be viable) by making a character attack on me.

If your claim isn't false, show it. Continuing to make it w/o that is dishonest.

It's interesting that she'd rather be there than here right now, given current circumstances.

Now that you mention it, that *is* interesting. Why would a few people prefer forums that lack rules of conduct and yet feel bullied in a forum where the expectations are higher? In principle, nothing that was said here could have been banned there...so why the disconnect?

Well, I suppose some of the posts demonstrating misandry were sexist and might have been moderated there as a result. But other than those.

Telling a woman that a sexual encounter she described as non-consensual was in fact consensual meets the criteria for bullying imo.

When did this happen?

 

[Berzerker]

I suppose it's an improvement when you quote what you are misrepresenting. Saves people the effort of going looking for it. Now all they have to do is decide if you think you can get away with a whopping lie, or if you are so stupid that you actually believe that what you quoted says what you claim it says.

How did I misrepresent what you said?

Unless my intent is to bully them further, in which case I make a note of what works on them and do it at every opportunity.

Bully them further at every opportunity - bully, stalker

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Bully them further at every opportunity - bully, stalker

Note the "unless".

Yes, IF my intent is to bully them further I do make note of how to go about it. IF the person drops below the standard level where I give them the usual level of respect that I give everyone except <deleted>. See, that's why most people aren't going to buy into your rap, because they know that I freely admit that I bully <deleted> that put themselves below that threshold. But that doesn't mean it's how I treat everyone, it's just how I treat YOU. Because you've earned it.

 

[Senethro]

When did this happen?

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...lt-women-so-much.626103/page-10#post-15310434

Turns out it was Brennan! You're off the hook bruh.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Note the "unless".

Yes, IF my intent is to bully them further I do make note of how to go about it. IF the person drops below the standard level where I give them the usual level of respect that I give everyone except <deleted>. See, that's why most people aren't going to buy into your rap, because they know that I freely admit that I bully <deleted> that put themselves below that threshold. But that doesn't mean it's how I treat everyone, it's just how I treat YOU. Because you've earned it.

And here was me thinking you were objecting to the claim of "stalking", given that nothing you said could be reasonably interpreted to mean that.

Turns out your only objection is that you don't bully everyone, which I don't think Berzerker was ever claiming you did.

I'd go with the stalking angle myself.

 

[Sofista]

Fascinating. For the past 5-plus pages, this has indeed turned into "Does objective reality really exist? The CFC edition".

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Now that you mention it, that *is* interesting. Why would a few people prefer forums that lack rules of conduct and yet feel bullied in a forum where the expectations are higher? In principle, nothing that was said here could have been banned there...so why the disconnect?

There are rules there. They are much more lax in comparison to CFC's rules, however, which is why I only drop in occasionally (my ignore list there is quite long and it doesn't take too long to skim the posts I'm interested in reading). There's only so much I can take of certain individuals and so I limit my time there. Besides, you're missing the fact that there are only three people who are regulars there who have also posted at CFC. I'm one, Mary is another, and the third was dogpiled in one of the other threads and left.

This place doesn't appear to be very welcoming to people from over there... I realize that a lot has to do with forum culture being different, with different standards for moderation, and different unwritten rules of behavior that aren't generally learned until you break one and don't even realize it until people start yelling at you. But it also has to do with individual people, too. Some folks over there are very supportive to others who are going through a rough patch. So it doesn't surprise me that if Mary is feeling unwelcome in OT, she would prefer to be over there where she does feel welcome.

Expectations are higher here, yes. But they're not consistently enforced. Over there they are consistently enforced (ie. one person was recently banned from that area of the site due to repeated transphobic posts).

Well, I suppose some of the posts demonstrating misandry were sexist and might have been moderated there as a result. But other than those.

That's a topic that does get discussed there at times, and it gets very contentious very fast. But posts have to be extreme to get officially censured there.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Turns out your only objection is that you don't bully everyone, which I don't think Berzerker was ever claiming you did.

That's actually the gist of his position...that the issue has to do with "Tim is just a bully" and that he bears no responsibility whatever and behaves just like everyone else. Truth is that his complaint with me is that I cheerfully provide the hatred he attempts to generate, which takes the joy out of his behavior.

Trolling is only fun when you can make people slip into expressing hatred involuntarily, like you made them do it. Like when someone could get Obama to slip on their "when they go low, we go high" bit. I don't pretend to go high, or even be interested in going high. I'll drop directly into gutters that a weak assed troll never even imagined existed, and enjoy the trip.

The best part is that occasionally somebody takes the full blast of excrement, decides they don't like it, and makes the modest changes in their behavior that allow us to get along...and everyone benefits. I won't name names, but it has even happened here on CFC.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

That's actually the gist of his position...that the issue has to do with "Tim is just a bully" and that he bears no responsibility whatever and behaves just like everyone else.

I don't see the contradiction, never mind the lie. I don't think that labelling someone a bully implies that they bully literally everyone they interact with, just that it's a fairly standard mode of behaviour for them. You stating that you quite happily bully people when you deem it appropriate seems to fit in with that idea pretty well.

 

[Berzerker]

Note the "unless".

Yes, IF my intent is to bully them further I do make note of how to go about it. IF the person drops below the standard level where I give them the usual level of respect that I give everyone except <deleted>. See, that's why most people aren't going to buy into your rap, because they know that I freely admit that I bully <deleted> that put themselves below that threshold. But that doesn't mean it's how I treat everyone, it's just how I treat YOU. Because you've earned it.

So you're a bully and a stalker and you're admitting it...again...and that makes me the liar. Now you're claiming I said you do that to everyone. Wrong, are your mistakes lies? The reason we got onto this topic is because I said you dont mock and insult your friends here, you do that to people you dont like. Well, you did that to TMIT but you have nothing against him, so maybe thats the usual level of 'respect' you save for everyone who isn't friend or foe.

You follow J around insulting him, so thats at least two of us who 'earned' it. I've seen you jump into other people's debates to insult someone other than me and J, so do you consider your response to TMIT respectful? Lesson for the forum, dont disagree with Tim too much, he doesn't like it. If he starts getting rude its because you earned it...

That's actually the gist of his position...that the issue has to do with "Tim is just a bully" and that he bears no responsibility whatever and behaves just like everyone else. Truth is that his complaint with me is that I cheerfully provide the hatred he attempts to generate, which takes the joy out of his behavior.

The gist of my position is you bully and stalk your friends? If I'm trying to generate hate and I'm successful, why would that take the joy out of it for me? That doesn't make sense.

Trolling is only fun when you can make people slip into expressing hatred involuntarily, like you made them do it. Like when someone could get Obama to slip on their "when they go low, we go high" bit. I don't pretend to go high, or even be interested in going high. I'll drop directly into gutters that a weak assed troll never even imagined existed, and enjoy the trip.

But you're not enjoying the trip, thats obvious.

The best part is that occasionally somebody takes the full blast of excrement, decides they don't like it, and makes the modest changes in their behavior that allow us to get along...and everyone benefits. I won't name names, but it has even happened here on CFC.

The forum stalker demands modest changes!

And here was me thinking you were objecting to the claim of "stalking", given that nothing you said could be reasonably interpreted to mean that.

Turns out your only objection is that you don't bully everyone, which I don't think Berzerker was ever claiming you did.

I'd go with the stalking angle myself.

Here's what he said:

Unless my intent is to bully them further, in which case I make a note of what works on them and do it at every opportunity.

He bullies them at every opportunity... Thats stalking. He follows J and me around interjecting himself into our debates with other people to insult us on a regular basis, possibly depending on how many infractions he can take without getting another ban.