[RD] The impact on western nations of allowing in millions of Muslim "refugees"

[warpus]

I've always found this to be a pretty facile distinction. Possibly because the first thousand times I heard it, it was solely in service of justifying Australia's unconscionably brutal permanent rightsless imprisonment of Tamil, Afghan, Iraqi and Iranian asylum seekers. It's a very handy line to deploy in the service of dehumanisation.

I don't know or care how some people misuse these terms to dehumanize others. I mean, I do care, but I'm not going to stop using these terms because other people use them with bad intentions in mind.

 

[CavLancer]

I guess we will see at the ballot box whether European culture can accept so many Muslims. Certainly there is backlash already. In comparison for decades I saw the high paying factory jobs flow out of the US, and the nation go deeper into debt. Yet no politician ran on the problem before Trump. While I don't like the guy and would never vote for him, he has shown the way to the white house, look after the workers. Took a long time. Now you have all these Muslims flowing into Europe, and it may take a long time for the European population to revolt against the huge change in their culture. Eventually however... Lets say a leftest gets mugged or raped or can no longer safely go for a walk in their once safe community. Stuff like that changes people. It becomes personal. Just wait. If they are good citizens then there's nothing to worry about, right? If they act like good little Germans and French they are very welcome. But will they?

 

[Lexicus]

Er, sorry, did you just say Trump will "look after the workers"?

 

[CavLancer]

No, I'm saying he ran on that, got the votes of the rust belt, and got elected. I haven't a clue what he will do,I don't believe the guy, but he has shown the way. If he does not look after the workers, he's gone. If he thinks he won because he's wonderful,. he's gone. He's there because he gave the workers hope, finally. The workers are the new way to the white house. He abandons them at his own risk.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

I guess we will see at the ballot box whether European culture can accept so many Muslims. Certainly there is backlash already. In comparison for decades I saw the high paying factory jobs flow out of the US, and the nation go deeper into debt. Yet no politician ran on the problem before Trump. While I don't like the guy and would never vote for him, he has shown the way to the white house, look after the workers. Took a long time. Now you have all these Muslims flowing into Europe, and it may take a long time for the European population to revolt against the huge change in their culture. Eventually however... Lets say a leftest gets mugged or raped or can no longer safely go for a walk in their once safe community. Stuff like that changes people. It becomes personal. Just wait. If they are good citizens then there's nothing to worry about, right? If they act like good little Germans and French they are very welcome. But will they?

Does sentiment like this linger past nationalism to nativism?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Percentage of Muslim population in Germany rises sharply from around five to roughly six.
"All these Muslims...huge change in culture..."

The extreme right is of course most successful in poorer regions with very few foreigners and an overambundance of drama queens.

 

[JollyRoger]

Assimilation is tough to expect. Just like at all the Irish surnames on Fox News that still haven't adopted to American values long after the potato famine has ended.

 

[AppleDumplingHead]

 

[daft]

The sins of the Left will be paid by the commoners, that`s what I find is most unjust, the good, but poor, people, dying for the sins of the rich-those who figure they are ok with more other-religion immigrants into the populace.

Those ignorant, leftist politicians, earning a good wage, living in safe, well-off, neighbourhoods. They have no idea what they`re doing to their own (common) people, well, not until it`s too late...

 

[Synobun]

The sins of the Left will be paid by the commoners, that`s what I find is most unjust, the good, but poor, people, dying for the sins of the rich-those who figure they are ok with more other-religion immigrants into the populace.

Those ignorant, leftist politicians, earning a good wage, living in safe, well-off, neighbourhoods. They have no idea what they`re doing to their own (common) people, well, not until it`s too late...

Are right-wing politicians living in squalor or something?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Maybe she should have just done as the 10 previous years, and let Greece and Italy amass the million+ refugees/illegals for the entire Eu.

Dublin rule ?
EU eventually got tired of receiving refugees and immigrates via Greece and italy so they just putting up border fences. Its not like Greece isnt getting Euro monies for both humanitarian aid and border security from Central EU countries
Greece has itself to blame for refusing to send back Refugees to Turkey as it was told to by the EU.
You dont want to listern to the EU then thats fine, Greece is free to set its own policies. Just dont complain about refugees staying trapped in Greece and blame it on the EU

 

[Lexicus]

Are right-wing politicians living in squalor or something?

Dolan Trump, is a man of the people

 

[yung.carl.jung]

The effect is of course very difficult to measure, but her words definitely created a perception that Germany was wide open - we know this from the testimonial of many migrants themselves. I read an interview with a Moroccan migrant who said half his village left for Germany when word reached that some guys from the village had made it there and said the country was accepting everybody.

I would assume that her attitude had an impact above all on the migrants who are not coming from war zones. There was a massive spike in arrivals from the likes of Morocco, Algeria and Pakistan. Why? It's not like these countries are in war, or got much worse in 2015. No, people decided to leave because they saw an opportunity.

But note that I'm not saying that Merkel's words and actions were the cause of the refugee crisis. That would be absurd, as the crisis was already enormous before she did anything. Clearly the root cause was the worsening of the situation in Syria, Libya and parts of Iraq. But Merkel made things worse.

I see where you are coming from, to some extent I might agree. It is definitely possible that some migrants from zones that are not in a state of civil war were persuaded by her words to come to Germany.

Though clearly that was not her intention, I think the one point you are missing is that this was not a message to refugees, even though it seemed that way. Rather, I think, this was a message to all the Germans, her making a clear stand on this issue, which is very rare for her. As a chancellor, she was very well known to "do nothing and have no opinion". Before the refugee "crisis", that was how she was viewed by many and presented in the media. Especially in numerous Persiflages and so forth in German television. So in the case of this message, context is important.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Lets say a leftest gets mugged or raped or can no longer safely go for a walk in their once safe community. Stuff like that changes people. It becomes personal. Just wait. If they are good citizens then there's nothing to worry about, right? If they act like good little Germans and French they are very welcome. But will they?

This kind of rhetoric is just petty and embarrassing. If you are of the opinion that people from the middle-east are more prone to rape and commit crimes then at least be open about it and don't phrase it in such a passive way. I don't like when people misuse the term culture, when clearly they are talking about race. Because if you took a look at Europe you would notice that Muslims don't keep their "muslim culture", they mix. The same goes for Europeans by the way. It should be obvious to any observer. If you genuinely believe that Muslims in Germany (I will not speak for other countries since Germany I am most knowledgeable about) share the exact same values as Muslims in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia do, you are being ignorant. Muslims in Germany are much more secular, much less conservative and more open to "liberal", whatever you want to interpret this as, ideas and often times not very faithful. I speak not only from factual data here but also from personal experience, growing up around Turkish people in the most conservative of all German states.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...t-welche-Straftaten-Fluechtlinge-begehen.html

Straftaten gegen die sexuelle Selbstbestimmung machen 1,1 Prozent aus.

(Criminal acts against sexual well-being make up around 1,1 percent total)

This counts not only rape, but also sexual harassment. Note that in this statistic even attempted rape or attempted harassment are counted as rape and harassment, so numbers are even higher. I have posted these statistics countless times but they get ignored by the usual suspects anyway. You seem a lot brighter and more accepting that the Civman-type so I give you the benefit of the doubt.

http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zei...aet-auslaender-polizeiliche-kriminalstatistik

(While the amount of crimes by non-German citizens rose, which is not at all surprising since the amount of non-Germans also rose, the BKA, German Office for Criminal Affairs, wants to make it clear that proportionally it did not. If you examine the data you see that the crime rate among non-Germans is just as high as the crime rite among Germans themselves. It is important to take into account that non-Germans also includes actual illegals and tourists, who commit a disproportional amount of crime, like pocket theft for example. So it turns out the crime-rate for refugees might actually be lower than the German average if we take that into account.)

Sorry for posting non-English sources of course, but the news coverage from elsewhere has been so godawful and black-and-white that I honestly have no English speaking sources I cite knowing fully well it is not b.s. I hope you trust me enough to translate these for you, if not you can always use google translate or ask some of the other German CivFanatics!

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Germany still has some substantial solidarity build into its system. The kind of refugees we are getting give much reason to assume that they will strain that solidarity, economically. Hence, on the things that truly matter, I don't see them enriching us, but endangering us. Hence I voted to curtail the influx.

I don't know or care how some people misuse these terms to dehumanize others. I mean, I do care, but I'm not going to stop using these terms because other people use them with bad intentions in mind.

The reality is that they quickly became both. Refugees. And economic migrants. They fled. And then they tried to migrate where they hoped to start the best of possible future lives.
It is common place among different ideological groups to focus on one of those two aspects. But both are true and relevant.

 

[Arwon]

I wonder how many Cuban refugees went to Jamaica, Bahamas, Haiti, Cayman Islands, or Turks and Caicos. Do we ever see the Cubans who fled to America described as "economic migrants" when those other countries would have been closer for many of them?

 

[Agent327]

The sins of the Left will be paid by the commoners, that`s what I find is most unjust, the good, but poor, people, dying for the sins of the rich-those who figure they are ok with more other-religion immigrants into the populace.

Those ignorant, leftist politicians, earning a good wage, living in safe, well-off, neighbourhoods. They have no idea what they`re doing to their own (common) people, well, not until it`s too late...

Again with the 'left' fairy tale. Most immigrants in Europe were invited by right of centre governments on the behest of employers (not noted for their left-leaning opnions). The same applies to the 'refugee crisis'. Learn some facts, boy.

Percentage of Muslim population in Germany rises sharply from around five to roughly six.

If you think a rise from 5 to 6 % is a 'sharp rise' you need to ask your school money back, son.

I guess we will see at the ballot box whether European culture can accept so many Muslims. Certainly there is backlash already. In comparison for decades I saw the high paying factory jobs flow out of the US, and the nation go deeper into debt. Yet no politician ran on the problem before Trump. While I don't like the guy and would never vote for him, he has shown the way to the white house, look after the workers. Took a long time. Now you have all these Muslims flowing into Europe, and it may take a long time for the European population to revolt against the huge change in their culture.

What 'huge change in culture' are you talking about? (Rise in racism? Nothing new there.) Because most Muslims simply vote for existing parties. Heck, thy don't even have their own parties.

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[CavLancer]

Feel kinda like I tapped into something here. Like when that family discovered that alien possessed people at that army base were putting pods under the beds at night and you would wake up an alien. So you guys get all this crap in college right? Have you checked under your beds in the dorm? Maybe its HAARP, one never knows what those things really are. Huge machines fairly well spaced around the industrialized world, and God only knows what they do. Weather modification my arse. Well I'm raising my family in a place where the rays don't reach, and I've been left out I'm happy to say. Its like being on the outside of a fish bowl and wondering why the fish are acting all funny like. Anyway, please proceed, I like fish.

 

[Arwon]

You could have just written "Ooops I was wrong".

 

[CavLancer]

Look mama, there's one that's swimmin upside down! Why does it do that? Mama: Its sick baby, don't get too close.

Hey wait a sec! How did this thread get an RD?

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