classical_hero
In whom I trust
The only reason they ever were a majority is because they kicked out the Jewish majority beforehand.
- Status
Cloud_Strife
Deity
This is not factually correct.
Last edited:
Zardnaar
Deity
The first war was fundamentally flawed though. They had no business getting a state in 1948 carved out of someone else's land.
The initial idea was the stupid idea.
That being said I support Israel's right to exist what's done is done. But Israel is secure there's a vast power disparity.
Conditions in Gaza are very bad, iirc the UN regards it as inhabitable.
It's a ghetto by any other name.
Never said they didn't. I have done it here myself. My point was that some of it is driven by antisemitism. More that should be probably.
The problem is this always gets raised as a way to deflect criticism of Israel, in this and other threads, here in our little microcosm in CFC (not necessarily by you rah, just speaking generally).
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
We can abandon 1942 as a reference point, then. All of the laws I referred to where in place by 1936. If Israeli attitudes towards Palestinians where identical to Nazi attitudes towards Jews, why has it taken them over seventy years to implement not a fraction of the legal discrimination that the Nazis instituted in less than three years?
I don't claim that there are no substantive criticisms to be made of Israeli policy regarding minorities- there are obviously many- but sloppy analogies to Nazism do not contribute to that criticism, and in fact cast in a less credible light. I don't want to be the galaxy brain centre boi complaining that "the left call everyone Nazis", but there are times when it pays to cool it a bit with the analogies.
Last edited:
It's not really my argument to make (my charitable interpretation was that it was an exaggerated point), but I agree in terms of how the Israeli right-wing government has been approaching any problems they consider themselves to be facing (which the two-state solution most likely is for Netanyahu and his lot). The nature of any legislation is not only smarter; the effects are more insidiuous in how they're presented to the (international) public. There's a lot of social pressure to conform, from my limited experience and contact, though this does vary throughout the region.
That said, I agree that sloppy comparisons to the Third Reich can definitely harm the point made. There are points on both sides here, and while I think it might not help credibility on the world stage to compare Israel directly with the Nazis, I think for the sake of making a point here on CFC where we can draw out the meaning behind it, it's not something to be cast away. There are very few nations that should be more aware of their modern history than Israel (I normally spend my time talking with fellow Brits about how we should be more aware of ours, but that's a derail - I'm just a bit out of my comfort zone here specifically r.e. legal knowledge - mine's more of the historical type), and I'll close by repeating they should be wary of anything that lets comparisons be made (treatment of specific minorities, for me, is a huge red flag, moreso than anything they may or may not have enshrined in law).
mitsho
Deity
So I want to hear some thoughts on Jared's Peace Plan Trump's Impeachment Distraction.
I found this Twitter thread quite a good summary of the content. Now my question is, how can anyone still take that administration seriously policy-wise when they so obviously not think it through before they present their work. It must be deliberate.
But this plan will certainly not lead anywhere.
I found this Twitter thread quite a good summary of the content. Now my question is, how can anyone still take that administration seriously policy-wise when they so obviously not think it through before they present their work. It must be deliberate.
But this plan will certainly not lead anywhere.
Trump didn't even know what the two-state solution was. I recall his ridiculous interview in Israel, where he was saying cretinous stuff like "you can have a two state solution if you want, or a one state solution if you want" etc. He is just dangerously ignorant of virtually everything.
That thread is hugely disingenuous (how is it 'ethnic cleansing' to renounce territory in which the vast majority of people don't identify with your state?), but yes, the peace plan will not be implemented. Nor is it intended to. The point was the break the consensus over pre-1967 borders being the starting point of negotiations, and to be an opening offer in a haggle. Any future concessions on the part of Israel can be framed as having been won by the Palestinian leadership.
Senethro
Overlord
Lots of unironic "might is right" and support of the legitimacy of conquest here. At least as long as its the "right" people.
I think the point was to give support to Netanyahu for re-election; close off Jerusalem; and annex as much of the west bank as they can. I wonder if a Trump Hotel is also part of the deal? It is not a peace plan at all.
The nongenocidal ones.
It failed, then. The opposition is on board with it and I don't see the credit going to Netanyahu.
I think that indiscriminately targeting an ethnic group or religion to kill is genocidal behavior, regardless of whether elimination is the goal (in the case of most Palestinians, it is driving us out, but a significant minority still believes in the coming tree genocide).
Zardnaar
Deity
Israel has nukes, Merkavas, F35s and F15s and the best army in the region.
Sure some people probably do want to wipe out Israel but if you were living in Gaza it's somewhat understandible.
Your own actions are driving the extremism.
If the situations were reversed and the Jews were living in Gaza you would be screaming at the top of your lungs about it. Assuming you had access to the net.
Last edited:
Senethro
Overlord
How good are you at irony? Consider this: The alt-right and fellow travelers spuriously justify their anti-semitism based on the supposed conspiracy to undermine Western Civilization/Christendom etc.
Nothing like a totally real imminent threat to justify pre-emptive action, right?
- Status
Similar threads
