The Kiwis Thread.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by andycapp


Late onset of puberty?

Speaking of Kiwis, my next door neighbour is originally from Auckland. With her husband she just returned from visiting family back in NZ and told me that she has decided to become an Australian citizen - I asked whether her husband was doing the same and she said "no he preferred to remain a Queenslander."

Why would a Kiwi want aussie citizenship? We can live and work in oz anytme we want anyway.

 

[andycapp]

Originally posted by Caligastia


Why would a Kiwi want aussie citizenship? We can live and work in oz anytme we want anyway.

She sees herself as an Aussie now (been here 10 years) and wants to make a committment to Australia by becoming an Australian citizen - good for her.

It's a pity more Kiwis and Brits, living in Australia don't follow her example and then they would have a say in their adopted country.

Scorch, you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what ANZAC Day is all about. Simon hit the nail on the head, ANZAC Day is not about glorifying war or just remembering the Gallipoli Campaign, but giving thanks for the sacrifice that hundreds of thousands of Australians and New Zealanders have made on behalf of their country (our behalf) over the years. Some have made the ultimate sacrifice with their life - that is not something to sneer at!!!.

I'd suggest you take the time to study New Zealand military history and apart from reading about some remarkable individual exploits you might start to appreciate that your small nation has made an important contribution to the freedoms and values that underpin civilization as we enjoy it today.

You might also take the time to speak to veterans that have served in wartime and you will find that the vast majority will agree that war does "suck" - that didn't stop them from doing what was required.

>end of rant and andycapp shakes his head< What's the world coming to when an Aussie has to lecture a Kiwi about New Zealand's wartime contributions.

 

[scorch]

I'm not trying to insult the people who died in the wars.

Why did these people sign up?
1. Government propaganda.
2. Drafting.
3. They liked war. (A very small minority i guess)



As far as my knowledge of Gallipoli goes, they ANZACs landed on gallipoli in the wrong place and got slaughtered.
And lets see what the paper says about it...

Last page of the NZ Herald April 25. Last sentence "Onward then - to the greatest day in our lives".

Thats right, that was such a f*cking great day.







Basically, I don't believe that those men died for our freedom, they died because of some politicians who never saw the front line decided to have a fight.
Surely we should remember them, but remember them for the pointlessness of what they died for, and that we should try avoid the same thing? Or do we not want them to know the truth?


Heres my favourite poem, which was written by wilfred own, a war poet of WWI.

Bent double, like old beggers under sacks,
Knock-Kneed, coughing like hagds, we cursed through sludge
Till on haunting flares we turned out backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue, deaf even to the hoots
Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! Gas! Quick boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone was stillyelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,
Asa under a green sea, I saw him drowning
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning

If in smothering dreams you too cold pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin
if you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of fil, incurable sores on inncocent tounges,
My freind, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


*Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori, means 'it is sweet and glorious to die for your country'




Also, in another one of his poems, it says 'His father would rather him dead than in disgrace'...

 

[Case]

Originally posted by scorch
Why did these people sign up?
1. Government propaganda.
2. Drafting.
3. They liked war. (A very small minority i guess)

That's way too simplistic. I'd say that most people who volunteered in both world wars did so because they beleived that the cause they were risking their life for was worth it.

As an example of this, following the outbreak of war in 1939 enlistment in the Australian army was fairly low. However, following the fall of France and the danger Britain was placed in enlistments went through the roof. From this it's safe to say that people only joined the military when they beleived that they were needed to assist in a cause they beleived in.

As far as my knowledge of Gallipoli goes, they ANZACs landed on gallipoli in the wrong place and got slaughtered. [/B]

While the ANZAC's did land in the wrong place, this was probably an advantage as the correct beach was much better defended.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Scorch, in your attempt to dig yourself out, you dig yourself further into a miserable rut.
An quoting Owen randomly proves nothing, and fails in the attempt to devalue the sacrifice of these brave men.
And "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" doesn't change me in any way; I've taught that poem many times, and heck I believe in the punch line, for my own reasons.


Boy, you miss the whole f*cking point of ANZAC day. I pity you.

 

[scorch]

Originally posted by Case

While the ANZAC's did land in the wrong place, this was probably an advantage as the correct beach was much better defended.

So what was the point in the whole Gallipoli landing? It achieved nothing.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by scorch



So what was the point in the whole Gallipoli landing? It achieved nothing.

Easy to say in hindsight. It achieved nothing, because it didn't succeed. If it had succeeded, it would be remembered in the same light as the invasion of Sicily in WWII. If the invasion of Gallipoli had succeeded, it would've knocked Turkey out of the war, depriving Germany of a valuable ally, and source of raw materials (remember, Turkey held the oilfields at that time). It would've relieved pressure on Russia, and might have ended the war TWO YEARS EARLIER.

Now, what was the question again?

 

[andycapp]

Scorch, you still don't comprehend the fairly simple concept behind ANZAC Day. Whilst ANZAC Day started as a commemoration of the Gallipoli landings, it has evolved into a commemoration of the sacrifice made by Australian and New Zealand service men and women in ALL conflicts.

Is war a tragic waste of life? Of course it is - as I said ask anyone that has served in one.

Is war pointless? Not when you are defending your nation against aggressors that have little respect for civilized values including the right to freedom and democracy.

Ringing any bells yet Scorch? Remember World War 2 and the struggle against Nazi Germany and the Japanese. ANZAC Day is about those that served in WW2 just as much as it is about those that fought in WW1 at Gallipoli - is that so difficult to comprehend?

Or do you argue that it was pointless to fight against the Nazis and Japanese?

Scorch, my comments have nothing to do with nationalist chest thumping but a simple respect for those that made such great sacrifice so that we could live in freedom and comfort.

When you finally do comprehend what I'm talking about you may begin to understand how ignorant and offensive your comments are.

 

[Case]

The Galipoli expedition was doomed to defeat. At the time of the landing the Turks outnumbered the Allied forces and were well dug into excelent defencive terrain.

 

[scorch]

I'm not trying to insult those who died in the war, I mourn their loss just as much as youse do.


But as i stress, WWI was not nessecery. All it was, was a result of political tension, innocent men did not have to get involved and lose their life for the governments ideas. My personal belief is that there was absolutly no reason for WWI to happen.

WWII was more straight foward, hitler wanted to take over the world.
*ok, I have been thinking for about 5 mintues, now and i can't think of what to say against it*
Ok, i admit defeat, WWII was about defending us, especially against japan, however, i feel this does not justify war on general, and the atrocitys of WWII.

I guess on general, ANZAC days makes me gripe, a) because the mention of war comes up
b) people start talking about how cool WWI was.

 

[Caligastia]

Hey, any fellow kiwis wanna talk rugby? The Super 12 is getting pretty interesting.

 

[scorch]

not really, i don't really follow non-national rugby.


i must be gay.








hahahah, i peirced my bellybutton, and all my mates are starting to seriosly consider if im gay or not.

 

[Caligastia]

When you say national I assume you mean international. Meaning you only watch the All Blacks?

The Super 12 is kind of international...

 

[Juize]

I just noticed that ainwood changed his sig when I was gone from here.

I feel depressed.

 

[scorch]

uh yeah...


I like watching the allblacks and stuff.

 

[scorch]

Did any of youse watch the game Brumbys VS Cheifs?

Guess who it was that tackled George.

 

[Caligastia]

who?

The Chiefs were well-beaten, but I didnt see the game.

 

[scorch]

It was me!




Nah, it was a guy from my school. Quite suprising seeing I goto a small school.

 

[andycapp]

Originally posted by scorch
It was me!




Nah, it was a guy from my school. Quite suprising seeing I goto a small school.

Looks like your school mate will have another opportunity to tackle George, check out this article.
Just curious Scorch, what was this guy's motivation, bad loser or another Kiwi with a chip on their shoulder about Aussie's?

 

[scorch]

oi, its just kiwi humour ok? I would find it equally funny if an aussie ran on and tackled one of our players. But his motivation was boredom (it was injurty time), and money, his mates paid him $200.