Rise of the Genetic Database

[HoloDoc]

Well to be fair the wealthiest among us have traditionally been the first to access just about any new technology. And they do indeed tend to use it for their own benefit without a thought to how their adoption will affect the lower classes. I'm not sure that's a good thing or bad thing, just a thing.

Are there examples where the wealthy have adopted a certain new thing that has had direct bad effects for the non-wealthy?

Pretty much our entire economic systems based on exploitation, so yeah. If you want some sort of specific tech example, most of our electronics are made using compounds poisonous to the workers making them. Many mining corporations deliberately poison th countryside to turn a quick profit. If I was more awake I could them of plenty of other examples.

 

[bernie14]

Breaking free of a cage is reactionary? Not really getting what you're saying here.

A primate throwing poop in the face of medical progress? How is it not reactionary?

 

[cardgame]

Testing long-term syphilis on the unknowing black population was also "medical progress"

So were a few Nazi human experimentations (we found out about hypothermia)

 

[bernie14]

Yeah. That was the point i was making, sorry if it wasnt clear and/or you missed it

 

[Berzerker]

Are there examples where the wealthy have adopted a certain new thing that has had direct bad effects for the non-wealthy?

https://www.yesmagazine.org/blogs/john-cavanagh-and-robin-broad/the-story-of-refined-white-rice

 

[Kaitzilla]

Genetic Databases got another story on Thursday.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...end-police-or-hackers-your-door-study-n919236

More than 60 percent of Americans who have some European ancestry can be identified using DNA databases — even if they have not submitted their own DNA, researchers reported Thursday.

Enough people have done some kind of DNA test to make it possible to match much of the population, the researchers said. So even if you don’t submit your own DNA, if a cousin does, it could lead people to you.

They said their findings, published in the journal Science, raise concerns about privacy. Not only could police use this information, but so could other people seeking personal information about someone.

Whoa, 60%.
Unknown DNA sample, rest in peace.

Also, before he died, Stephen Hawking feared the rise of Khan.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/...d/news-story/b7c3e16159aab6fae53abaaa326e61c2

THE late Stephen Hawking believed advances in genetic science would lead to a future generation of superhumans that could ultimately destroy the rest of humanity.

In newly published writings, Dr Hawking suggested an elite class of physically and intellectually powerful humans could arise from rich people choosing to edit their DNA and manipulating their children’s genetic makeup.

“I am sure that during this century, people will discover how to modify both intelligence and instincts such as aggression,” he wrote.

This concern by Hawking later turned out to be a bit of a dud since CRISPR is more like a shotgun for editing DNA than a scalpel.
Even still, CRISPR might be the greatest invention of the 21st century so far.
https://www.sciencealert.com/crispr...mutations-genetic-damage-target-deletion-site

.
..
......
Eh, doesn't matter, the DNA mad scientists will kill us all first!
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0188453
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1007019
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1007025
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1007129
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1007286

 

[Kaitzilla]

You should go with a different case study for the evils of genetic databases than a serial killer being caught by one.

Another killer has been caught through genealogy websites it appears.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...-arrest/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97d1fbc30ac8

Spitzer refused to elaborate on how they were able to track down Neal and identify him as a suspect after 45 years, but he said police had received a “pointer notification through genealogical DNA” — suggesting perhaps that authorities had come upon DNA from someone related to Neal that would have implicated him as a possible match.

That DNA “hit” came in January, Spitzer said. After following and obtaining a DNA sample from Neal himself, police were confident enough to make an arrest, he added.

Warm stories like these will push forward the case to make a national DNA database.


Arizona is trying to massively broaden theirs.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/new...te-massive-statewide-dna-database/2873930002/

Under Senate Bill 1475, which Sen. David Livingston, R-Peoria, introduced, DNA must be collected from anyone who has to be fingerprinted by the state for a job, to volunteer in certain positions or for a myriad of other reasons.

The bill would even authorize the medical examiner's office in each county to take DNA from any bodies that come into their possession.

The Department of Public Safety would maintain the collected DNA alongside the person's name, Social Security number, date of birth and last known address.

Any DNA in the database could be accessed and used by law enforcement in a criminal investigation. It could also be shared with other government agencies across the country for licensing, death registration, to identify a missing person or to determine someone's real name.

It could also be provided to someone conducting "legitimate research."

A $250 fee could be collected from a person who submits biological samples, according to the bill. It's not clear who would foot the cost for the dead.

So is the FBI.
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wo...ald-trump-rutherford-institute-john-whitehead

President Donald Trump has signed the Rapid DNA Act into law which means the police can routinely take DNA samples from people who are arrested but not yet convicted of a crime.

The law, which was signed in 2017 and comes into effect this year, will require several states to connect Rapid DNA machines to Codis – the national DNA database controlled by the FBI.

These machines, which are portable and about the same size as a desktop printer, are expected to become as routine a process as taking fingerprints.

But John W. Whitehead from The Rutherford Institute believes it is a sinister development which will make everyone a suspect.

This Rapid DNA Act will de facto make a national DNA database quietly.
At least it is only for felony arrests so far, but as the number of things defined as felonies skyrockets it becomes a bigger deal.
A false police report is a class 4 felony I think.

90 minute DNA test, yikes.
It will put an even bigger burden on minorities already targeted unfairly by police.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12...er-dna-retention-for-non-convicted-arrestees/

“We want the court to recognize that California’s DNA collection and retention practices are unfairly putting already vulnerable poor communities and people of color at even greater risk of racial profiling and law enforcement abuse,” Lisa Holder, interim legal director at the Equal Justice Society, said in a statement.

Risher told this news organization last year that police still could collect DNA from suspects, just not automatically. Investigators, he said, should use the same information that leads to an arrest to apply for a warrant to get a DNA sample.

In upholding the compulsory collection of DNA for felony arrests, the state Supreme Court likened it to other standard police methods such as taking a suspect’s photograph and fingerprints. The court majority also noted legally innocent people can expunge themselves from the database.

But in the Monday lawsuit, the plaintiffs asserted the process for purging oneself from the database is complicated, poorly publicized and unreasonably difficult to navigate. The plaintiffs estimated that 750,000 DNA profiles collected by California police agencies in the past decade were eligible to be expunged because the people were either exonerated or acquitted, but only 1,510 made such requests, and of those, 1,282 were approved. That amounts to a 0.1 percent removal rate.

“The burden should be on the state to delete the DNA after they discovered they have collected DNA they no longer have a legitimate reason for holding. Instead, the state has a very long, complicated expungement process and doesn’t tell people about it,” said Jamie Lee Williams, an EFF staff attorney who co-authored the lawsuit. “I hope the court recognizes that DNA is incredibly sensitive information, and these people are not convicted. Their cases are over.”

The FBI had a file on Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. because he was against state segregation.
They also had one on John Lennon because he opposed the Vietnam war.


As always, Britain is in the lead on this.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...d-children-calling-transgender-woman-man.html

A mother was arrested in front of her children and locked up for seven hours after referring to a transgender woman as a man online.
Three officers detained Kate Scottow at her home before quizzing her at a police station about an argument with an activist on Twitter over so-called 'deadnaming'.
The 38-year-old, from Hitchin, Hertfordshire, had her photograph, DNA and fingerprints taken and remains under investigation.
More than two months after her arrest on December 1, she has had neither her mobile phone or laptop returned, which she says is hampering her studies for a Masters in forensic psychology.

Use the wrong pronoun on Twitter?
Arrested.
DNA taken and stored forever.
Phone and laptop kept forever under civil asset forfeiture since they were used in the commission of a crime.

If she sits on a bench in the future and someone dies near that bench a month later, she can be under police investigation again because she is in the DNA database and got a match.

 

[Oerdin]

https://www.yesmagazine.org/blogs/john-cavanagh-and-robin-broad/the-story-of-refined-white-rice

It is the samething with white bread vs while grain bread. It is lighter, fluffier, and looks better while being easier to chew but it has most of its nonstarch nutrient removed in the process.

One of the key reasons milling companies do this is because the rice and or wheat flour will last longer in the package as it is usually the bran which spoils first. Naturally, companies want to minimize waste and rice or flour which lasts longer in storage is an obvious benefit for companies.

 

[Hrothbern]

Another killer has been caught through genealogy websites it appears.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...-arrest/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97d1fbc30ac8
Warm stories like these will push forward the case to make a national DNA database.

There are two sides to that coin

There are also many people wrongly convicted where DNA could have cleared them from the charges. And with capital crimes this is important.

Here an example of someone:

California man who spent 39 years in prison gets $21 million for wrongful conviction
(Reuters) - A California man who was wrongfully convicted for killing an ex-girlfriend and her son four decades ago has reached a $21 million settlement with the city of Simi Valley, officials said.
Craig Coley, 71, was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the 1978 murder of his former partner, Rhonda Wicht, and her 4-year-old son, Donald, at their apartment.
He had always maintained his innocence, and was pardoned in 2017 by California’s then-governor, Jerry Brown, based on exculpatory DNA evidence found by investigators.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-california-pardon-idUSKCN1QD0RQ

He is not the only one:

More than 350 U.S. inmates have been exonerated by DNA testing since 1989, according to New York-based the Innocence Project, which helps people who were wrongfully convicted. On average, convicts who were freed had served 14 years in prison when exonerated.

For capital crimes I understand that the chance on a wrong conviction is above 1% in western countries.

 

[Yeekim]

90 minute DNA test, yikes.
It will put an even bigger burden on minorities already targeted unfairly by police.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12...er-dna-retention-for-non-convicted-arrestees/

When you have a national DNA database, should that not reduce the risk of being unfairly targeted by police?

 

[Hrothbern]

When you have a national DNA database, should that not reduce the risk of being unfairly targeted by police?

The other side of the coin is that you can be framed by the police: under pressure of statistics, newsmedia, a chief wanting to make career, DNA material taken from a suspect is added to the crime scene.

When Agatha Christie would have known about DNA for CSI purposes, she would for sure have written some nice Hercule Poirot detectives on it. (framed by family members most likely)

I think that there must be made a principal difference between the use of DNA discharging you from a crime (reducing the risk of wrongful convictions) on the one hand and DNA as satisfying evidence to convict on the other hand.
Just like with an alibi.
And similar to fingerprints and so much other CSI material that can be framed by somebody (the real criminal or the police).

 

[Yeekim]

@Hrothbern
If the police really wishes to frame someone by tampering with evidence, I suppose they can do so today, either with or without using their DNA. They don't need a national database for that.
If anything, it makes this behaviour less likely by making it easier for that career-pursuing chief to capture actual culprit without resorting to such corrupt tactics.

 

[Hrothbern]

@Hrothbern
If the police really wishes to frame someone by tampering with evidence, I suppose they can do so today, either with or without using their DNA. They don't need a national database for that.
If anything, it makes this behaviour less likely by making it easier for that career-pursuing chief to capture actual culprit without resorting to such corrupt tactics.

Agree
Any CSI like findings can be abused or be misleading
and yes
being better able to zoom in fast to more people near the crime scene will help focussing the police efforts on the real criminal

 

[Yeekim]

 

[Kaitzilla]

Rwanda and its 12 million people will be the 1st with a full national DNA database if this passes.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...a-database-human-rights-privacy-a8832051.html

Rwanda has proposed the world’s first country-wide DNA database, a project that will involve collecting samples from all of the country’s 12 million citizens in an effort to crack down on crime.
The scheme has prompted concerns from human rights campaigners who believe the database could be misused by the government and violate international human rights laws.
Plans for the database were announced by Rwanda’s Minister for Justice and Attorney General, Johnston Busingye.
Speaking in the country’s capital, Kigali, he said the project would help to fight crimes like rape and murder.

 

[The_J]

Oh boy...
The only thing which keeps me positive is that I don't think they have enough money to do that .

 

[TheMeInTeam]

This concern by Hawking later turned out to be a bit of a dud since CRISPR is more like a shotgun for editing DNA than a scalpel.

Do you anticipate this being the case forever? I expect either super humans via genetic modification or cyborg stuff will happen eventually. I'm not even sure it's a bad thing. Human nature has proven to result in some non-ideal outcomes, even by regular human standards. In contrast to quite a few failed models, however, altering human nature outright hasn't actually been tried.

There's an obvious problem with this though. Who decides how they should be altered in the first place? Probably the wealthy and powerful as usual, though this should at least increase overall competence.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Do you anticipate this being the case forever? I expect either super humans via genetic modification or cyborg stuff will happen eventually. I'm not even sure it's a bad thing...

The only barrier is a lack of understanding exactly how genetics works and the lack of tools needed to make precise changes.
I'm 100% sure genetic modification/cyborg will happen some day.

For now, it remains perhaps the most complicated subject science has encountered.
http://blog.drwile.com/not-suprisingly-dna-is-even-more-complex-than-previously-thought/
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/basics/noncodingdna

...Who decides how they should be altered in the first place? Probably the wealthy and powerful as usual...

Yup.
Gaining the knowledge and equipment and making it safe enough so the body doesn't kill itself with an autoimmune response is extremely difficult and expensive.

In the near term however:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/style/barbra-streisand-cloned-her-dog.html

Barbra Streisand Explains: Why I Cloned My Dog

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I never understood the massive backlash to animal cloning. It has to be well outside the top 10 unethical things done to animals. Even if you compare it only to unethical things *done routinely every day* it's not close.

Cloning humans would be even more touchy, but even for that I've yet to hear a convincing reason it's unethical compared to say having a kid the old fashioned way. People largely seem to reject it because it sounds weird/unnatural or something. I've only had this conversation with a couple people though so maybe they missed something important and were just bad at considering more relevant points.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I guess I'm one of those people though who thinks, eh as long as I don't do anything wrong, which I don't who cares?

that kind of mentality is what allowed the rise of police states in the first place, lol. all it needs is for someone to go ahead and redefine what is "wrong" in a legal sense and.. you're behind bars. or dead. and redefining what "wrong" means happens daily.