- The October Revolution Part 1 - Fall of the Tsars

I will be double posting today due to some things that occurred in the game - I will respond to the following before delving into desperate advise needed for a situation that has come about.

I was wondering is there anything that can be done for such rapid war weariness?

Russia suffers some of the worst (maybe even the worst) war weariness in this scenario. Beyond getting more luxs, raising my lux slider and building more city improvements that affect citizen happiness is about all I can do. Indeed, as chaosArbitier mentioned, luxs are very rare in this scenario.

Do you plan on building up and taking over the rest of Japan or do you plan on waiting for the inevitable spark for WW1?

No, no plans right now to continue the war with Japan - its too close to the outbreak of WW I to take the risk. Plus, I can't afford another round of war weariness brought on by me declaring war.

Sidenote: The song that started playing when I read the most recent posts was "Leningrad" by Billy Joel.

Poetic justice! :goodjob:
 
Brucha did somebody unexpectedly declare war on you? I hope not but I will stand by for your post.
 
Before reading this post, I must remind everyone of my updated plans for the trio of Soviet stories:

Since I am playing a trilogy of stories/games concerning the rise and possible fall of the Soviet Union, I have decided to actually link up all three games together. By this I mean that, after this scenario, the second one will be modded to reflect my situation at the end of the game as far as territories, and then the same to the thrid and final game. For instance, if I end this game in possession of the Japanese islands, I will include them in my next start position. However, if this removes a civ from the start of a game then I will lessen the territories as to allow the civ (like Japan) to be included in the scenario. Or if I should suffer badly at the end of this game (like being invaded by Germany and losing some of my western territories) that too will be included in the next scenario.


This greatly affects how I play the game from now on, as not only do I have to worry about how I perform during this game, but also what kind of a start position I will have in the next scenario. Now onto the big news and the advise I desperately need.

Following the end of hostilities with Japan, my priorities were to re-build my shattered military and try to it up to match that of the other European countries in size and strength. I have been building city improvements affecting citizen happiness, and am continuing to do so. Most cities now have all available buildings that affect happiness up to Stadiums. Thats the best that I can do for now until other improvements become available. My economy is doing just fine and so I have the finances to greatly expand my military to at least double that of what it was previously.

I still have a ton of of un-improved tiles all throughout Russia, so I also set about improving tiles like mad to keep my money supply high with the increase of my military.

I catch some attempts at planting supplies in Saint Peterseburg and even have two cities hit by propaganda and sabotage.

For a year there is peace - no wars anywhere, and so I keep on building and sitting back. Then the uneasy peace unravels.

In week 41 of 1903, the valiant but tiny Boers declare war on the British (yaaa! :) ). Right before my eyes, this single declaration of war sparks an entire round of other declarations as the conflict between the Boers and the British suddenly engulfs most of Europe.

Right after the Boers' declaration of war, Germany declares war on France. Scandinavia signs an MA with Britian against Germany. The Balkans sign an MA against the Boerse with Britian. Chile and the British sign an MA against the Boers, and then against Germany. Finally, the Ottomans sign an MA against Germany with France. Naturally, these declarations of war will include Austro-Hungary due to their locked alliance with Germany.

Unfotunately, it seems that I still cannot sign MA's - a quick look at the tech tree is not helping. I can't seem to find the tech that gives me the ability to do so.

Naturally, the big question is: what the heck should I do? To give everyone a clearer picture of the situation, let's get a breakdown of my current position as of week 45, 1904, right after the outbreak of war.

First is my military strength compared to others, as well as attitudes and current diplomatic aggreements:

Britain: Weak, Furious, I have a spy in their capital
France: Weak, Annoyed
Germany: Average, Polite ROP, trading Game for 18 gpt
A-H: Strong, Annoyed
Scandinavia: Strong, Annoyed
Ottomans: Strong, Cautious, have spy in their capital, ROP
Balkans: Strong, Cautious
USA: Average, Annoyed
China: Strong, Polite, have spy in their capital, ROP
Low Countries: Strong, Annoyed
Portugal: Strong, Cautious
Spain: Strong, Cautious
Japan: Strong, Furious, peace treaty, getting 50 gpt

The first moves on the large coalition's part against Germany is in the Far East when I spot a very large French and British force marches up from India and Indochina:

fareast-1904.jpg


I am unsure what the Germans have for units in Tsingtao, obviously the destination for the two Entente armies. For myself, I have Hong Kong garrisoned with only 7 infantry, 2 cavalry, and 10 horse artillery, while Shanghai has but 6 infantry, 5 cavalry and 4 horse artillery. I am forming two full armies (of 21 units plus 13 art each), but this just started and so the armies won't be ready for some time. I have decided to only expand my East Asian fleets, but they are quite strong, nearly double that during the last war.

On the European front, here's a pic:

europeanfront-1904.jpg


My border cities are garrisoned by at least 3 infantry and 2 MG's, while I have 5 full armies (each with 21 units and 13 artillery) positioned back behind the front. Another army, the same size as the others, is protecting the border with Scandinavia. My overall plan was to garrison my border cities with at least 5 infantry and 3 MG's, but have not finished it yet.

My Dilemma
I really do not want to side with the British alliance - Britain and France are still far ahead of my, and siding with them against Germany and A-H would simply hand them even more vp's while weakening the Germano-Austro-Hungarian alliance. However, I am in no position to go to war in the Far East right now. My small garrison at Hong Kong cannot survive an attack should the two French and British armies turn from Tsingtao and attack. They are within 1-2 turns of reaching Hong Kong should I go to war. Siding with Germany would allow me to lessen my defenses somewhat on the European front, as France would have to fight their way through to get to me. I could transfer at least two armies to the far east, but it will take them at least 3-4 turns before reaching either Hong Kong or Shanghai. Shanghai is safe from immediate attack, but Hong Kong could easily fall before reinforcements can be shipped overseas.

I certainly will not declare war - I can easily force someone to declare war on me though (especially Britain if I conduct a round or two of spying to piss them off).

On the other hand, going to war with Germany could be profitable, since they will be forced to fight a two-front wawr with France. Yet, will the French and British stick in it long enough, or will I find myself all alone against Germany and A-H in a few turns?

Then again, do I even want to get pulled into this conflict, perhaps it won't last very long? I could sit back at watch it from the sidelines while taking the opportunity to continue to build up, free from the conflict.

I truly have a dilemma and can't decide how to proceeed. There are so many unseen pitfalls in any decision I make. Though I tried to relate as much info as I can, I understand its not the entire picture to make an informed decision. Yet, what kind of advise can anyone offer?
 
Quick note: Military Alliances come with Industrialization II.

Edit: My advice:

1. Wait 10 turns and then reevaluate the situation, and if possible, don't get involved until you get some more ground strength. It's possible that one side or the other would be weakened by then, and you might be able to risk some limited war(s) of conquest.

2. Start moving troops towards Hong Kong immediately. Have the captured Japanese cities start cranking out troops as fast as possible, and use your gold to assist towards that end if at all possible, shaving a turn or two off completion times. You can use some of those troops to reinforce Hong Kong.
 
Quick note: Military Alliances come with Industrialization II.

Edit: My advice:

1. Wait 10 turns and then reevaluate the situation, and if possible, don't get involved until you get some more ground strength. It's possible that one side or the other would be weakened by then, and you might be able to risk some limited war(s) of conquest.

2. Start moving troops towards Hong Kong immediately. Have the captured Japanese cities start cranking out troops as fast as possible, and use your gold to assist towards that end if at all possible, shaving a turn or two off completion times. You can use some of those troops to reinforce Hong Kong.

Ah, thanks for the heads-up on MA's, CivAgamemnon, the text in the pedia for Industrialization II runs over and so its hard to read and make out all the details.

Good plan, btw. The last thing I want to do is to lose my Chinese properties having taken so much time conquering them. I can transfer two entire armies (that would be 42 infantry/cavalry divisions and 26 artillery) from the west to Hong Kong and ship them by rail to Pusan where I have a huge steam transport fleet sitting. However, it will take the transports 3 turns to reach Hong Kong by sea.

I coudl also aid the Boers and Germany with monies or resources, especially the Boers. I have an average excess of 2300 gpt beyond my expenses each turn. I don't have anything saved up in the treasury though, as I have been spending it on completion times of city improvements.
 
(Aside: The biggest failing of AoI 3 is the crappy Civilopedia; I can personally guarantee that AoI 4 Civilopedia is much much better (having done so much of the work on it :lol:). If you have questions, just ask.)

That delay time is precisely why you should avoid any conflict until after you get everything in HK.

The Boers would be a good choice to enlist in a war against France, drawing their attention away so you can snatch up all those French territories in Indo-China. ;) But I get ahead of myself. After you get your strength and treasury back up, decide who's weakest in your region, and go after them. That's about all you can do.
 
I dearly hope that I can side with Germany (funny huh?) and hope they don't lose Tsingtao after I have already kicked the Brits out of China. I don't really want to expand into French Indochina because of the difficulty of keeping it supplied with quality troops so far from Russia, but maybe I can unleash a couple of armies on it and heavily damage it. However, its haard to say until a few turns develop and I get a better picture of what comes out of it. I do think that the Boers are going to last long though...
 
Taking India from the Smelly British would yield Silk,Spice,Gems and Elephants.
 
Ah, yes ... someone went for Industrialization II ... you can tell who (Britain and France). My advice, significantly different from CivAgamemnon's:

Germany: Average, Polite ROP, trading Game for 18 gpt
A-H: Strong, Annoyed
Get a Military Alliance with the British against the *Austrians*. The Brits have Ind. 2, so you will be able to sign an MA with them, and taking the Austro-Hungarians out of the picture will get you some nicely productive cities (Trieste, Prag) and access to the Balcans. You won't be able to avoid war with Germany - but you shouldn't get the Rep hit from the breaking of the deal, since the Germans will be the ones declaring on you. The Austrians also have three Luxuries you might not have (Game, Copper, and Wines), which will help long-term.

Indeed, as chaosArbitier mentioned, luxs are very rare in this scenario.
Except in Africa - I double-checked my German game, and I have *ten* in Africa. Pity only the Boers start there.

Britain and France are still far ahead of my, and siding with them against Germany and A-H would simply hand them even more vp's while weakening the Germano-Austro-Hungarian alliance
Any VP the British and French get from the Germans is almost guaranteed to come from Africa, and you can't interfere anyway. The British (possibly the French) *will* take Tsingtao, and the British tend to keep massive amounts of troops in India. If you go to war, they will sign an RoP with China (if they haven't already) and steamroll your Chinese territories. Nine and eleven defenders won't cut it.

Yet, will the French and British stick in it long enough, or will I find myself all alone against Germany and A-H in a few turns?
Won't matter. If you can take several A-H cities, you can make peace with them (leave one city as a minor buffer, either Budapest or Lemberg) and Germany will be forced to follow suit - the Locked Alliance can be a royal pain, since A-H has a higher WW than Germany, or seems to, and will make peace with a nearly-gone enemy ....

Anyway, my two cents, take what you will.

Edit:
Dumanios said:
Taking India from the Smelly British would yield Silk,Spice,Gems and Elephants.
Unfortunately, Overseas trading is disabled, so his Russian and European territories won't gain any benefit. Not to mention the near-impossibility of taking India from the British any time in the near future.
 
(Aside: The biggest failing of AoI 3 is the crappy Civilopedia; I can personally guarantee that AoI 4 Civilopedia is much much better (having done so much of the work on it :lol:). If you have questions, just ask.)

That delay time is precisely why you should avoid any conflict until after you get everything in HK.

The Boers would be a good choice to enlist in a war against France, drawing their attention away so you can snatch up all those French territories in Indo-China. ;) But I get ahead of myself. After you get your strength and treasury back up, decide who's weakest in your region, and go after them. That's about all you can do.
When is AoI 4 coming out?
 
Hrmm, I wasn't expecting two completely different ideas :D

Ah, yes ... someone went for Industrialization II ... you can tell who (Britain and France).

That's true, I don't need to wait to sign MA's with France or Britain. Are you suggesting not waiting then, ChaosArbiter, and going right into the conflict? I could always force A-H to declare war on me by some failed spy missions...

Get a Military Alliance with the British against the *Austrians*. The Brits have Ind. 2, so you will be able to sign an MA with them, and taking the Austro-Hungarians out of the picture will get you some nicely productive cities (Trieste, Prag) and access to the Balcans. You won't be able to avoid war with Germany - but you shouldn't get the Rep hit from the breaking of the deal, since the Germans will be the ones declaring on you. The Austrians also have three Luxuries you might not have (Game, Copper, and Wines), which will help long-term.

That is interesting and invading A-H would give me much easier conquered territories for me to capture and hold than oversea ones, especially in Indochina. The luxs in A-H would help out greatly.

Any VP the British and French get from the Germans is almost guaranteed to come from Africa, and you can't interfere anyway. The British (possibly the French) *will* take Tsingtao, and the British tend to keep massive amounts of troops in India. If you go to war, they will sign an RoP with China (if they haven't already) and steamroll your Chinese territories. Nine and eleven defenders won't cut it.

True about Tsingtao, though I still hope they hold out ;). As far as losing Hong Kong or Shanghai, if I waited to join the conflict until reinforcements can be sent there, I could effectively hold out in China, at least I think I can.
 
Hrmm, I wasn't expecting two completely different ideas :D

That's the beauty of this place - people see things differently, and sometimes, you can get some really good stuff out of different thought processes. Chaos has a pretty keen tactical mind and good suggestions. :)

Brucha, think of us as your cabinet. :lol:
 
That's the beauty of this place - people see things differently, and sometimes, you can get some really good stuff out of different thought processes. Chaos has a pretty keen tactical mind and good suggestions. :)

Brucha, think of us as your cabinet. :lol:


Ha, ha! That is exactly why I posed the question! I think that I have decided to follow ChaosArbiter's advise though and go after Austro-Hungary. I am already prepared for a conflict in the region, unlike the situation in China. I just don't feel confident in my ability to further the conflict in China or Indochina against Britain or France.

With the forces in place I can invade Austro-Hungary while fighting a defensive war against Germany. My objectives would be quite limited in scope (capturing the cities Chaos mentioned), with the possibility of expanding it should the chance surface.

However, I will not risk war weariness and will force A-H to declare war on me. It should not take much, I think. A turn or two of repeated spy missions and they should be ready to declare war on me.
 
Ok Brucha, this is what I think you should do.

-I would sit back for at least ten turns and look at the situation as it unfolds.
-I would fortify Hong Kong, and maybe take Tsingtao from Germany, before the British can get it. Its probably not likely, but maybe there is a slight chance of success.
-Send extra money to the Boers, they need all the help they can get.
-Work on getting Industrialiation II, so you can sign MA's
-I think it would be in the best interest of Russia to have peace in the Far East for now, the British are too strong there, and with the help of the French, it does not help the strategic situation look any brighter. Besides your troops on the Eastern front are untested, and maybe now's the time (Its exactly what Robert the Bruce told his father in Braveheart, and the Bruce was right it was the time.) for an attack on A-H. I also say this because in the near future you have to build Red Guards Inf which are weak, and you are going to need a nice buffer zone, in the east, in Europe for projected land losses or city losses later on.
-I think making Germany fight a two-front war is a perfect scenario.

So I agree to wait a bit like CivAgamemnon says, and side with Britain like ChaosArbiter suggests.
 
Very soon - there's only a few small things left to do. :)

To keep an eye on what's going on, click on the link in my signature for AoI and subscribe to the thread, if you haven't done so already. :)
Thanks I will keep checking.
 
Ok, this is what I think you should do.

-I would sit back for at least ten turns and look at the situation as it unfolds.
-I would fortify Hong Kong, and maybe take Tsingtao from Germany, before the British can get it. Its probably not likely, but maybe there is a slight chance of success.
-Send extra money to the Boers, they need all the help they can get.
-Work on getting Industrialiation II, so you can sign MA's
-I think it would be in the best interest of Russia to have peace in the Far East for now, the British are too strong there, and with the help of the French, it does not help the strategic situation look any brighter. Besides your troops on the Eastern front are untested, and maybe now's the time (Its exactly what Robert the Bruce told his father in Braveheart, and the Bruce was right it was the time.) for an attack on A-H. I also say this because in the near future you have to build Red Guards Inf which are weak, and you are going to need a nice buffer zone, in the east, in Europe for projected land losses or city losses later on.
-I think making Germany fight a two-front war is a perfect scenario.

So I agree to wait a bit like CivAgamemnon says, and side with Britain like ChaosArbiter suggests.

Well, I guess that I am taking a trip down to the store later to purchase some beer and sitting in front of my computer this evening playing Civ3 tonight!

I agree with you on every point except with waiting ten turns. Waiting ten turns and then joining would raise the risk that other nations will drop out of the conflict. The AI is notorious sometimes for not staying in the fight, so to speak, and will even sign peace treaties before an MA has even expired. However, I have noticed that you can generally trust the AI to stick in a fight for 8-10 turns beofre bowing out.

Unfortunately, I need to get the latest artillery tech, Field Guns II, before Industrialization II, because my horse artillery simply is pathetic. I just started researching it and will be finished in 5 turns, then I can start on Industrialization which will also take 5 turns.
 
Well, I guess that I am taking a trip down to the store later to purchase some beer and sitting in front of my computer this evening playing Civ3 tonight!

I agree with you on every point except with waiting ten turns. Waiting ten turns and then joining would raise the risk that other nations will drop out of the conflict. The AI is notorious sometimes for not staying in the fight, so to speak, and will even sign peace treaties before an MA has even expired. However, I have noticed that you can generally trust the AI to stick in a fight for 8-10 turns beofre bowing out.

Unfortunately, I need to get the latest artillery tech, Field Guns II, before Industrialization II, because my horse artillery simply is pathetic. I just started researching it and will be finished in 5 turns, then I can start on Industrialization which will also take 5 turns.
Fine Attack!(Its not hard to convince me to do that)Just get ready to start building that new artillery as soon as possible, and send troops to China, for an assault against Tsingtao. What do you have for a Black Sea fleet Brucha? Tell me how many German and A-H divisions are on your border compared to your Russian forces, you have 5 armies, how close are they in relevant strength?
 
Fine Attack!(Its not hard to convince me to do that)Just get ready to start building that new artillery as soon as possible, and send troops to China, for an assault against Tsingtao. What do you have for a Black Sea fleet Brucha? Tell me how many German and A-H divisions are on your border compared to your Russian forces, you have 5 armies, how close are they in relevant strength?

Darn, that reminds me that I can't attack (or should not) until I upgrade my horse artillery! And that can't happen for another 5 turns!

My Black Sea fleet is quite small, maybe 8 ships total. I decided not to try to gain naval supremacy ouside of the Far East. I have no idea of the German and A-H divisonal strengths. I will need to spy on some border cities to find out. That is cetainly something I will do before attacking. I never attack unless I have a clear understanding of enemy strengths.
 
Darn, that reminds me that I can't attack (or should not) until I upgrade my horse artillery! And that can't happen for another 5 turns!

My Black Sea fleet is quite small, maybe 8 ships total. I decided not to try to gain naval supremacy ouside of the Far East. I have no idea of the German and A-H divisonal strengths. I will need to spy on some border cities to find out. That is cetainly something I will do before attacking. I never attack unless I have a clear understanding of enemy strengths.

Yes I agree, you always have good intelligence on your objectives. So wait 5 turns for the artillery and in the meantime do some spying. Is the Ottoman Empire weak at this point? I was wondering if they might try to get involved with this conflict.
 
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