The "OMG! Look what happened in DoC!" Thread

[Leoreth]

I agree, this is insensitive at best.

 

[need my speed]

Are you serious? How is that insensitive?

 

[citis]

I agree, this is insensitive at best.

This kind of humor just isn't funny. It probably is to you and your immediate circle of friends or the type of people who complain that people get offended too easily
(which is funny because whenever something directly criticizes or takes the piss out on them, they get all up into arms) but this doesn't fly anywhere else.

You're not pushing any kind of envelope or being edgy here.
Just making a statement in bad taste.

What?

It was a really good joke.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Are you serious? How is that insensitive?

You don't think reducing the bindi to a punchline is in poor taste?
I get that this is the sort of stuff teenage boys say amongst each other all the time (but if my guess is correct, RT is around my age or actually older)
but this is the sort of comment that gets people fired or ruined in the real world. And for good reason too,
because it's not political correctness and people getting their knickers in a bunch that's the problem;
the problem is people who can't outgrow this juvenile behavior and who are being left behind in a world that's moved on from living in a bubble.
You have to share this world with radically different people who you interact with either in real life or on the web and consider other peoples' perspectives before opening your mouth.
It isn't hard at all to NOT act on whatever baser nature compels people to use others and intrinsic parts of others as the butt of a joke,
whether that be ethnicity, gender, sexuality, religion or lack thereof.

Sure, figures like Gordon Heuckeroth or Jeremy Clarkson keep trying to do it.

Or for an example on this forum, Pavel, who keeps talking smack about everything he doesn't understand or empathize with (Muslims, Tibetans, China, Celts, America, etc.)

And they get torn into for doing so. Because it just isn't funny, it isn't cool,
and it loses them sponsorships and commercial backing, and public opinion.
Because nobody, smart corporations notwithstanding, wants anything to do with someone who
might tick off a portion of their customer-base (really one of the few beautiful things about capitalism)

INB4 RT uses the rubbish "I have an Hindu friend" defense. Your one friend or two thinks it's okay.
Cool. Logical fallacy incoming. Apparently, those friends now represent the entirety of Hindus and no one else matters.
Not only that, but your friends aren't a shield you can throw up to absolve you of the things you say.
Own up to your own actions.

What?

It was a really good joke.

K. So say someone uses Greek people as a joke. Someone who doesn't share your background and doesn't get the nuances of your life and culture.
They're not laughing with you, they're laughing at you, using you as a punchline and expecting you not to make a fuss about it or challenge them back.

Still on board? If you're telling me Yes, you're a straight up liar.
Because none of that ever happens without the other person thinking they're secure in clowning on you, without any consequences.
You think you can make a joke on them back and they'll take it?
People don't tell those kinds of jokes if they honestly feel like they're on an equal standing with you.
They make them whenever there's a difference, and they're certainly never equal differences.

So let's not beat around the bush here. It's a bad joke.

And I don't really expect RT to actually respond, but just own up to it and no one's going to judge you.
If you wouldn't say it in front of a crowd of a thousand+ people or in front of your friend's mom, don't say it all.
Because this community benefits from a wide range of voices and that means not shutting people out,
only tempering them so that they don't shut out others or make it uncomfortable for them to join.
(IIRC to use an example, Tigranes once lamented why there weren't any girls playing DoC;
I could point out more than a few exchanges in some of the threads that would scare off any self-respecting girl)
That's why DoC is as good as it is, because we've had people from all over help out and pitch in their feedback and historical expertise.
And that's why it doesn't look like vanilla RFC; whose inaccuracy stems from a very narrow-minded and insular view of world history.

So let that be said.

 

[Alexius08]

The Spanish got conquistadors, but never bothered to circumnavigate:

The Russians managed to launch an unexpected amphibious invasion.

Why did the Vikings get this name for their capital?

 

[citis]

You don't think reducing the bindi to a punchline is in poor taste?
I get that this is the sort of stuff teenage boys say amongst each other all the time (but if my guess is correct, RT is around my age or actually older)
but this is the sort of comment that gets people fired or ruined in the real world. And for good reason too,
because it's not political correctness and people getting their knickers in a bunch that's the problem;
the problem is people who can't outgrow this juvenile behavior and who are being left behind in a world that's moved on from living in a bubble.
You have to share this world with radically different people who you interact with either in real life or on the web and consider other peoples' perspectives before opening your mouth.
It isn't hard at all to NOT act on whatever baser nature compels people to use others and intrinsic parts of others as the butt of a joke,
whether that be ethnicity, gender, sexuality, religion or lack thereof.

Sure, figures like Gordon Heuckeroth or Jeremy Clarkson keep trying to do it.

Or for an example on this forum, Pavel, who keeps talking smack about everything he doesn't understand or empathize with (Muslims, Tibetans, China, Celts, America, etc.)

And they get torn into for doing so. Because it just isn't funny, it isn't cool,
and it loses them sponsorships and commercial backing, and public opinion.
Because nobody, smart corporations notwithstanding, wants anything to do with someone who
might tick off a portion of their customer-base (really one of the few beautiful things about capitalism)

INB4 RT uses the rubbish "I have an Hindu friend" defense. Your one friend or two thinks it's okay.
Cool. Logical fallacy incoming. Apparently, those friends now represent the entirety of Hindus and no one else matters.
Not only that, but your friends aren't a shield you can throw up to absolve you of the things you say.
Own up to your own actions.



K. So say someone uses Greek people as a joke. Someone who doesn't share your background and doesn't get the nuances of your life and culture.
They're not laughing with you, they're laughing at you, using you as a punchline and expecting you not to make a fuss about it or challenge them back.

Still on board? If you're telling me Yes, you're a straight up liar.
Because none of that ever happens without the other person thinking they're secure in clowning on you, without any consequences.
You think you can make a joke on them back and they'll take it?
People don't tell those kinds of jokes if they honestly feel like they're on an equal standing with you.
They make them whenever there's a difference, and they're certainly never equal differences.

So let's not beat around the bush here. It's a bad joke.

And I don't really expect RT to actually respond, but just own up to it and no one's going to judge you.
If you wouldn't say it in front of a crowd of a thousand+ people or in front of your friend's mom, don't say it all.
Because this community benefits from a wide range of voices and that means not shutting people out,
only tempering them so that they don't shut out others or make it uncomfortable for them to join.
(IIRC to use an example, Tigranes once lamented why there weren't any girls playing DoC;
I could point out more than a few exchanges in some of the threads that would scare off any self-respecting girl)
That's why DoC is as good as it is, because we've had people from all over help out and pitch in their feedback and historical expertise.
And that's why it doesn't look like vanilla RFC; whose inaccuracy stems from a very narrow-minded and insular view of world history.

So let that be said.

What? We are talking about the diamond on his head.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

What? We are talking about the diamond on his head.

That's what I'm talking about too. It's an offensive joke.

 

[need my speed]

That's what I'm talking about too. It's an offensive joke.

No, not at all. And even if someone out of a billion people took offence to it, so what?

I really hope you'll never see Dutch cabarets...

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I don't find cabaret offensive simply because there's nothing in there that diminishes or reduces anybody in any form.

Just because you don't find RT's joke offensive doesn't diminish the impact of it.
Maybe you're okay with people ripping on the Dutch, but that doesn't mean others will.
It's about basic consideration and tact. And quite frankly if someone did that, I'd rip into them too.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Yeah, I think that joke was insensitive and potentially offensive. The place for those sorts of jokes are with your good friends (if they don't take offense), not on an online forum, simply because they have a much greater potential to cause hurt online.

 

[Hojsimpson]

What? We are talking about the diamond on his head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindi_(decoration)
The Diamond in the turban is another thing.

I get that this is the sort of stuff teenage boys say amongst each other all the time

There are many non-teenagers that say those things.

[...] (really one of the few beautiful things about capitalism)

I wouldn't say this is a beautiful thing, they just do it for money. They don't care much about respect if it doesn't give money.
I know you're feminist, well during the 60s Edward Bernays convinced feminist women to smoke. It seemed like a rebeldy act as women couldn't smoke. But he did it to sell more cigarettes. I wouldn't say "Beautiful"

But it's true, you may get fired if say those kind of things.

 

[pole475]

Just everyone calm down! I don't care if the joke is offensive or not. This thread is for oddities in DoC. Drop it!

 

[Leoreth]

Thank you TD for writing the post I didn't have the energy to write.

Just let me add two things. You might not see jokes like this as having a particularly large impact, but it's the aggregate of dozens of small things that create an environment of othering. Just don't contribute to that.

INB4 RT uses the rubbish "I have an Hindu friend" defense. Your one friend or two thinks it's okay.
Cool. Logical fallacy incoming. Apparently, those friends now represent the entirety of Hindus and no one else matters.
Not only that, but your friends aren't a shield you can throw up to absolve you of the things you say.
Own up to your own actions.

What's also relevant is that between you and your friends there exists a context. If you say offensive stuff in whatever way, they probably know how you mean it and how to take it.

The same doesn't apply in the public interaction of strangers on the internet. You don't really get to demand how others have to interpret your words. Without a shared context, they can be interpreted in a great number of ways.

 

[Sanguivorant]

I never expected this to be taken so seriously. I grew up around a crap load of discrimination and impolite comments made towards someone's identity. I have kind of grown up to expect it.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

I never expected this to be taken so seriously. I grew up around a crap load of discrimination and impolite comments made towards someone's identity. I have kind of grown up to expect it.

So are you saying you're okay with it?
Satisfied at effectively being a second-class citizen?
Are the people who mock Rob Ford for being a misogynist and racist all wrong and he should just do whatever he wants?

This is really weird to me, considering I recall seeing both you and RT get offended before.
(You in response to something inaccurate Pavel said about Muslims and RT expressing indignation at Scottish people being slaughtered in that Channing Tatum movie)
Now flip the coin.

Expecting discrimination doesn't absolve the wrongdoer of anything.
Your argument is tantamount to saying: "I've grown to expect that people will try to steal my car radio. I'm resigned to my fate,"

I've yet to see a single good argument as to why RT can say whatever offensive thing he pleases without people being able to challenge him or call him out on it.
(this isn't the first time btw, there were more when he was posting as Montcalm & Solzhenitsyn)

 

[Wondering Kid]

Guys, you're making one hell of a fuss over a (while funny, kind of insensitive) joke.

I'm sure RT has already seen that such statements are not going to be well received, and will refrain from making them in the future. Such flak is not easy to forget.

...This is why I love the Internet so much. While in my country politically incorrect humor is the norm (I apologize if I have offended any of you with it, honest), one has to keep it together as the Net is an international community. In order for it to work, people must do their best to go along (and in any case, there are blogs especially targeted for that). So let's try to make this work fellas.

Anyhow, may we get back on track, please?

 

[NKN]

Wait, is that Poland controlling Copenhavn?

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Guys, you're making one hell of a fuss over a (while funny, kind of insensitive) joke.

I'm sure RT has already seen that such statements are not going to be well received, and will refrain from making them in the future. Such flak is not easy to forget.

He's barely made any attempt to own up to any of the other things he's said despite people ripping into him before:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=440485&page=76
With zero acknowledgment or recognition of any fault.
He'll do it again, unless he wants to clear things up right now and prove me wrong
instead of waiting it'll blow over and hoping everyone will just forget past misdeeds.

...This is why I love the Internet so much. While in my country politically incorrect humor is the norm (I apologize if I have offended any of you with it, honest), one has to keep it together as the Net is an international community. In order for it to work, people must do their best to go along (and in any case, there are blogs especially targeted for that). So let's try to make this work fellas.

And no, why do you need to apologize?
I don't recall you ever saying anything offensive before.
But I'm glad that you get it and I really hope people "get" what you're trying to say too, because it's been going over people's heads.

Anyhow, may we get back on track, please?

I'll drop it for now. Hopefully, people get what you, me, Leoreth, Hoj & mmrandomplayer have been saying and at least think about what it means.

From an old game when the new stability was still being worked out. What the heck.:

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Looks like China collapsed to the wrong core in that screenshot...

 

[BenZL43]

I think RT is around 1-2 months older than me. I'm 19.
Yeah I agreed that those jokes are kinda insensitive and should only be said to good friends where people can clearly see you're joking from your facial expressions... not online.

But yup let's drop this.