The Other George Zimmerman Trial

[civvver]

Ok so a couple retards decided one shot in self defense is the same as lighting up a car driving away. But hey it's florida, like 89% of all crazy us stories come from florida. I'm still not sure I blame SYG here, sounds like some idiot jurors who would've argued self defense no matter what. At least they got him on the other charges, the outrage should be if he gets paroled early. Do you know if he has to serve consecutive sentences?

Here's something similar from my area:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/19/justice/michigan-woman-shot-ruling/

Guy freaks out cus some teenager knocks on his door and he shotguns her. Pretty ridiculous. I can't seem to find a trial date though.

 

[Berzerker]

Ok so a couple retards decided one shot in self defense is the same as lighting up a car driving away.

well said

 

[woody60707]

Ok so a couple retards decided one shot in self defense is the same as lighting up a car driving away. But hey it's florida, like 89% of all crazy us stories come from florida. I'm still not sure I blame SYG here, sounds like some idiot jurors who would've argued self defense no matter what. At least they got him on the other charges, the outrage should be if he gets paroled early. Do you know if he has to serve consecutive sentences?

Here's something similar from my area:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/19/justice/michigan-woman-shot-ruling/

Guy freaks out cus some teenager knocks on his door and he shotguns her. Pretty ridiculous. I can't seem to find a trial date though.

I hate the can of worms this is going to open, but I feel I still need to ask. Why would it matter if someone in a panic shot once, or multiple times?

 

[Bamspeedy]

I hate the can of worms this is going to open, but I feel I still need to ask. Why would it matter if someone in a panic shot once, or multiple times?

It might not be completely realistic, but most people think if you fire a shot, you should wait a second or two to see if you hit your target or if there is still a threat.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Or, instead, you can get out of your car and fire 8 or 9 more shots at the fleeing vehicle. Then go watch a movie.

Innocent people who act in self defense call the cops, instead of running away and pretending nothing important had happened.

 

[Farm Boy]

It might not be completely realistic, but most people think if you fire a shot, you should wait a second or two to see if you hit your target or if there is still a threat.

That never happens. Well, it does happens but then you might be dealing with somebody that's a veteran of firing shots in anger. There's some term for it that I can't remember, but once somebody starts firing there is a massive tendency for that person to keep firing until the magazine is empty. If you are looking for a moment of reflection in a shooter on whether or not to continue, that moment, more realistically, is reloading.

 

[Berzerker]

did Zimmerman run away and act like nothing happened?

 

[Formaldehyde]

Zimmerman didn't have the opportunity to do so. He also didn't call 911 after chasing down Martin in the dark, contrary to the orders of the police dispatcher to not do so.

Instead, he relied on his boxing and martial arts skills to try to detain him so he didn't "always get away". Either that, or he cowardly grabbed his gun.

 

[Kyriakos]

Zimmerman didn't have the opportunity to do so. He also didn't call 911 after chasing down Martin in the dark, contrary to the orders of the police dispatcher to not do so.

That settles it. Call the DA and have that man locked up

 

[JollyRoger]

I hate the can of worms this is going to open, but I feel I still need to ask. Why would it matter if someone in a panic shot once, or multiple times?

Or someone with the intent to kill for that matter.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That settles it. Call the DA and have that man locked up

We tried to do exactly that. But the ludicrous SYG laws apparently made it impossible for justice to prevail over hysteria and paranoia.

 

[Rashiminos]

What parts of SYG being key in both trials, and the jury being able to convict them both of lesser crimes, is still so difficult to understand?

The part where the invention in your head is being paraded as reality should be the first place for you to look.

Hmmm. I'm getting some pushback from lawyer types who say that the judge's instructions are based on common law, not SYG. Maybe. But Judge Nelson had to know that SYG had been the subject of enormous public scrutiny over the past year. It's hard to believe she'd use the phrase without clarification if she was basing her instructions solely on common law.

Why do we have such inane self-defense laws in states with SYG which apparently allow these sorts of travesties of justice to even occur?

There do seem to be some people who actually like living in Florida.

 

[Berzerker]

He also didn't call 911 after chasing down Martin in the dark, contrary to the orders of the police dispatcher to not do so.

Wow, Zimmerman's a track star with infra-red vision. He didn't chase him down, he lost him before the dispatcher told him to break off pursuit.

Either that, or he cowardly grabbed his gun.

Yeah, the coward waited to be attacked before grabbing his gun

Ok so a couple retards decided one shot in self defense is the same as lighting up a car driving away.

hehe

 

[ParkCungHee]

That never happens. Well, it does happens but then you might be dealing with somebody that's a veteran of firing shots in anger. There's some term for it that I can't remember, but once somebody starts firing there is a massive tendency for that person to keep firing until the magazine is empty. If you are looking for a moment of reflection in a shooter on whether or not to continue, that moment, more realistically, is reloading.

There's contagious shooting, which is the tendency for people to keep shooting until everyone runs out of shots.

 

[Berzerker]

Hey Form, great minds think alike... Legal analyst Lisa Bloom was on the Reverend Al Show pushing her new book and she said her biggest gripe about the prosecution was they didn't flesh out how Martin saw the gun.

Of course you didn't tell the truth about what Zimmerman said, but Bloom did show the same photo of Zimmerman with his hand on his back right hip showing the location of the holstered gun.

She blasted the prosecution for not explaining to the jury Martin couldn't have seen the gun - which is of course more BS. Martin would have felt the gun before looking to see what his leg was up against.

I suspect the prosecution did consider that approach, but they would have figured the defense would show how Martin's leg would have alerted him before his eyes of a possible gun. Better to leave that hanging and hope the jurors couldn't figure it out. Why would he lie about it though? At that point in the fight it didn't matter where or how Zimmerman got his gun.

 

[KmDubya]

It might not be completely realistic, but most people think if you fire a shot, you should wait a second or two to see if you hit your target or if there is still a threat.

What you are saying is pretty much the opposite of what you are trained to do in a self defense situation. You continue to shoot until the threat is removed. Normally that would be two shots center of mass and then if the threat is still there follow up with headshots. The theory being that if the aggressor has body armor the body shots won't be effective. They used to teach the Mozambique drill where you'd shoot twice center of mass, see what happened and then follow up with a headshot. Now they stopped teaching the see what happened part, instead go straight to the head.

In a self defense situation you made the decision to use deadly force when you draw your weapon. After that it is all about shot placement. No warning shots or verbal threats at that point.

On topic - this was not a self defense situation, the guy was crazy and shot up a car load of teens and went home.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Hey Form, great minds think alike... Legal analyst Lisa Bloom was on the Reverend Al Show pushing her new book and she said her biggest gripe about the prosecution was they didn't flesh out how Martin saw the gun.

Only they spent an incredible amount of time under cross examination and during the closing arguments showing that Martin couldn't have seen the gun, which was yet another of George Zimmerman's lies. Don't you remember the dummy the prosecution used numerous times?

55 seconds in:


Link to video.

If Trayvon Martin had been mounted on the defendent as he claims, he never could have got it.

Of course you didn't tell the truth about what Zimmerman said...

What "truth" was that?

She blasted the prosecution for not explaining to the jury Martin couldn't have seen the gun - which is of course more BS. Martin would have felt the gun before looking to see what his leg was up against.

Only they obviously did. It sounds like you didn't even see the trial given how much stuff you continue to get completely wrong about it.

Why don't you try posting what she actually stated?

At that point in the fight it didn't matter where or how Zimmerman got his gun.

That is one of the most critical aspects of the prosecution's closing arguments, and it is clearly a key aspect of what occurred. But of course you know far more about criminal trials and how to conduct a proper prosecution than they do.

 

[Bugfatty300]

I demand tedious Z vs. M algebra problems. Possibly with maps and diagrams drawn in MS paint.

 

[Berzerker]

Only they spent an incredible amount of time under cross examination and during the closing arguments showing that Martin couldn't have seen the gun, which was yet another of George Zimmerman's lies. Don't you remember the dummy the prosecution used numerous times?

Complain to Lisa Bloom, she's the one accusing the prosecution of dropping the ball on the gun

and yes, I remember the dummy - thats how I knew Martin's left leg was positioned against Zimmerman's right hip where the gun was located and thats how Martin "saw" the gun. He felt it with his leg and looked.

What "truth" was that?

You accused Zimmerman of lying about Martin seeing the gun because he was laying on it located in the small of his back. That wasn't true, Zimmerman never said that and you then edited your post and replaced that nonsense with a photo of Zimmerman with his hand on his back right hip. You dont tell the truth and call him a liar.

Only they obviously did. It sounds like you didn't even see the trial given how much stuff you continue to get completely wrong about it.

Why don't you try posting what she actually stated?

What did I get wrong? And I did post what she said.

That is one of the most critical aspects of the prosecution's closing arguments, and it is clearly a key aspect of what occurred. But of course you know far more about criminal trials and how to conduct a proper prosecution than they do.

I didn't criticize the prosecution, she did.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I demand tedious Z vs. M algebra problems. Possibly with maps and diagrams drawn in MS paint.

Granted, it would probably do just as much good...

Complain to Lisa Bloom, she's the one accusing the prosecution of dropping the ball on the gun

Only you still haven't shown that is actually true. And even if she did state it exactly as you claim, that would just mean that she doesn't understand the case any more than you do.

She was probably complaining that they didn't stress it enough. That they and the police did a very poor job and deserve criticism for it, which is true. But they clearly did address it during the witness testimony and during the closing arguments as I just proved.

and yes, I remember the dummy - thats how I knew Martin's left leg was positioned against Zimmerman's right hip where the gun was located and thats how Martin "saw" the gun. He felt it with his leg and looked.

Yet that isn't what Zimmerman or the defense attorneys claimed is what occurred. Now is it?

You accused Zimmerman of lying about Martin seeing the gun because he was laying on it located in the small of his back. That wasn't true, Zimmerman never said that and you then edited your post and replaced that nonsense with a photo of Zimmerman with his hand on his back right hip. You dont tell the truth and call him a liar.

You mean just like the prosecution did? And Zimmerman clearly did say that after his father initially stated that was what occurred to the media:

After telling the police dispatcher that Martin "ran",[168] Zimmerman left his vehicle to determine his location and ascertain in which direction Martin had fled.[162][169] The dispatcher asked if Zimmerman was following Martin, and Zimmerman replied "Yeah." Then the dispatcher said, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replied with "OK" and stated that Martin got away.[168] After a discussion about where Zimmerman would meet police, the call ended, and Zimmerman told investigators he was returning to his vehicle when Martin approached him from his left rear and confronted him.[162][163] According to Zimmerman, Martin then punched him in the face, knocking him down, and began beating his head against the sidewalk.[162][163] Zimmerman said he called out for help while being beaten, and at one point Martin covered his mouth to muffle the screams.[162][163] According to Zimmerman's father, during the struggle while Martin was on top of Zimmerman, Martin saw the gun Zimmerman was carrying and said something to the effect of "You're gonna die now" or "You're gonna die tonight" and continued to beat Zimmerman.[161] Zimmerman and Martin struggled over the gun, and Zimmerman shot Martin once in the chest at close range. Zimmerman told police he shot Martin in self-defense.[162][163][164][Note 9]

Zimemrman stated the very same thing during the police walk-through.

It seems to me that you aren't even familiar with the defense in this case, much less the prosecution, as you continue to ignore the aspects which don't fit your preconceived notions of what must have occurred.