The Peoples Republic of France

jojoweb said:
Arf arf you are funny ^_^. UK, the more capitalistic country in Europe is also the country which refused to give you subsidies ^_^. So it is true...

What are you talking about?

1) I don't care about the subsidies, because our government is unable to get them. EU has reserved about €3 billion for the Czech Republic for years 2005-2006. Guess how much were we able to use - 15%. The rest will probably be wasted. We're obviously so rich we don't need any subsidies at all! :crazyeye:

2) UK, as far as I know, sarcrificed a part of its rebate to fund the new members.

3) I'd gladly be in EU with UK in the lead, with almost no subisidies for the poor countries, but with really free internal market including free movement of workforce and free exchange of services, than in EU with France in the lead, where there would be large subsidies, but overregulated and unfree internal market. New members can live without subsidies (or at least Czechs, Slovenians, Slovaks and Hungarians), if they have an open access to the old members' markets.
 
Very good article, IMO:

Why are the French in denial about capitalism?

Posted at: 11:46

Want to know why the French presidential elections, next year, will be (a) deeply depressing, and (b) damaging to the overall health of European politics?

Look no further than this astonishing poll, conducted by the reputable Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) based at the University of Maryland, just outside Washington, DC.

I owe thanks to the Eurosceptic think tank Open Europe for bringing it to my attention, but the survey's message should worry pro-Europeans, too - indeed anyone who has any affection for rational debate.

PIPA, together with the polling form Globalscan, asked 20,791 people in 20 large countries about their attitudes to the free market, and globalization. The key question asked respondents if they agreed or disagreed with the statement that "the free enterprise system and free market economy is the best system on which to base the future of the world."

In 19 countries, a plurality said yes - with the Chinese beating even Americans in showing the greatest enthusiasm for the new economic benefits, comforts, opportunities and freedoms that capitalism has brought them.

Fully 74 per cent of Chinese urbanites (the poll did not question rural dwellers in China) placed their faith in free enterprise. Others that were nearly as enthusiastic were the Philippines (73 per cent), the US (71 per cent), India (70 per cent), and Britain (66 per cent).

One country - France - disagreed strongly. Only 36 per cent of the French agreed that the free market economy is the best system, while 50 per cent disagreed.

French distrust of free enterprise far exceeded, by ten points or so, even such losers in the global capitalist rat-race as the Argentines and Russians.

The PIPA summary and the full results [PDF] are both available online.

Some of you may feel these results are unsurprising - perhaps you have been stuck in one of the amusing wildcat strikes that French airport and railway staff like to throw at the height of the tourist season, as they argue for the right to retire at 30 on a full pension, 10 hour weeks or whatever bone-in-the-nose nonsense has taken their fancy this time.

But there is one excellent reason why they should be astonishing - France is a highly successful capitalist nation, with a particular genius for globalisation. That is what is so maddening and alarming about these results - they show the impossible gap between French reality, and the deceitful, shallow rhetorical race to the bottom that is French political debate.

And this in a nation whose political elite is crammed with instinctive free marketeers, who know full well how important free trade is to their Republic, but dare not say so.

If you doubt my words about the virtues of French capitalism - just consider this thought experiment. Imagine a devoted British capitalist, a Telegraph reading stockbroker perhaps, getting up in his rural Essex home and commuting to the office, for a long day in the City.

Thanks to the French mania for buying up British privatized utilities, he gets his water from a French company (NWL, owned by Suez), and likewise his electricity (EDF) - indeed, the electricity may well come from a nuclear power plant across the Channel in France.

Walking down his garden path, he dodges the council binmen collecting his garbage (employed by Sita, a subsidiary of Suez), and catches a French-owned train into town (Connex).

He glances at his morning post - it includes the results of his health-check from his private insurance company, PPP (now owned by the French firm AXA). He eats too much fat, he is told. He makes a mental note to choose the healthy eating option at the staff canteen (run by the French global giant, Sodexho). I could go on.

The irony is, of course, that on their side of the Channel, the merest hint of privatization is enough to bring troglodytic French workers out on strike. Why are the French in such denial about being capitalists? Is it anti-Americanism, is it a childish, sentimental attachment to Socialism?

I have a hunch it is linked to the guilt, if that is the right word, that modern French citizens feel about the way they live their lives, and how they are turning their backs on the traditions that make them feel so good about themselves.

I mean the way that the French would like to buy their bread each morning from a village baker, and choose their vegetables with loving care from an open-air market stall, or feed their children with a home cooked pot-au-feu.

But of course, like the rest of the modern world, the French friends I know are busy people, and - except maybe at weekends, or when staying with granny in the country - they buy their bread at the local supermarket, along with salad in the bag and packs of ready meals.

No matter that France is rather good at supermarkets, and invented the hypermarket - it all makes them feel vaguely bad about themselves. So they end up hating the supermarket chains for running their local bakers out of business - even as they steer their Peugeots into the Carrefour car park. Guilt, hypocrisy and denial - it's a potent mix.

I seek guidance from French readers, or those who know France well.

One thing I know, though. The principles of EU free trade are already under fierce attack - I firmly believe it would not now be possible to start the Single Market project from scratch, for example.

With the French in such a uniquely hysterical mood about free enterprise, we can expect every major candidate in next year's president elections to run on an overtly protectionist, statist platform filled with fine-sounding rhetoric against big business. It will not do any of us any good.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...=newsdesk&xml=/news/2006/02/07/bleurope07.xml
(there are links to polls the author mentioned)
 
It provides no answer to the question.
 
Elrohir said:
Forcing people to keep employee's on the payroll even if they aren't needed was part of Roosevelt's New Deal, and we all saw how that worked out.

Yeah, the 50's and 60's economic boom. :mischief:
 
Winner said:
Maybe it's a rhetorical question.
The article doesn't read that way. It's basically a pointless article without any serious explanation for what's happening in France.

Meanwhile, it looks like the protestors have won. We can also congratulate Sarkozy for winning the next presidency. I doubt Villepin can get the conservative nomination now. And the lefties seem to be divided as usal.
 
kronic said:
The article doesn't read that way. It's basically a pointless article without any serious explanation for what's happening in France.

Meanwhile, it looks like the protestors have won. We can also congratulate Sarkozy for winning the next presidency. I doubt Villepin can get the conservative nomination now. And the lefties seem to be divided as usal.

Well, it doesn't matter, because the so-called right is obviously left enough. French have a nice choice: left, more left or the fascists. And I thought our party system is flawed...
 
kryszcztov said:
The CPE is dead. A new defeat for Chirac and de Villepin. :lol: Losers.

I'd say its bad not just for Chirac and Villepin, but for whole France as well. It looks like that government is little more than a hostage of various protesters. No reforms, even the little ones, are possible. France is in real trouble.
 
Winner said:
I'd say its bad not just for Chirac and Villepin, but for whole France as well. It looks like that government is little more than a hostage of various protesters. No reforms, even the little ones, are possible. France is in real trouble.
Yes... We are doomed :cry:
 
kryszcztov said:
The CPE is dead. A new defeat for Chirac and de Villepin. :lol: Losers.
No, Chirac and Villepin will be just fine. They'll retire to their mansions soon and have a great life. The real loser here is the future of France, and the young fools who were protesting.

Steph, you have my sympathies.
 
MamboJoel said:
France doesn't need any kind CPE, it needs summer vacations from Easter to All Saints' day.
Technically, Summer vacations couldn't start before the 21st of June, or end after the 21st of September.
 
Shall we propose a strike to ask for the abrogation of winter, move autumn to the 3rd of november to the 31st of January, spring from the 1st of February to mid april?
So we could extend Summer from Easter to All- Saints day?

Wait... It's not possible. Winter didn't signed a CPE, but a CDI, we cannot fire it as we want. We have to keep it! Even it the sun is working a less in winter than in summer
 
Odin2006 said:
Yeah, the 50's and 60's economic boom. :mischief:

Actually, that boom is not correlated at all with the retention or workers, but of the pent-up demand for products in a post-WWII market. That, along with the relaxation of wage and price-controls present in the wartime economy, allowed the US economy to grow.
 
JerichoHill said:
Actually, that boom is not correlated at all with the retention or workers, but of the pent-up demand for products in a post-WWII market. That, along with the relaxation of wage and price-controls present in the wartime economy, allowed the US economy to grow.

Yep. Nothing like a world war to boost that economy !
Even better, loose that world war !
 
If you ask nicely we'll do you that favour. :)
 
Winner said:
I'd say its bad not just for Chirac and Villepin, but for whole France as well. It looks like that government is little more than a hostage of various protesters. No reforms, even the little ones, are possible. France is in real trouble.

Bozo Erectus said:
No, Chirac and Villepin will be just fine. They'll retire to their mansions soon and have a great life. The real loser here is the future of France, and the young fools who were protesting.

Steph, you have my sympathies.
Fortunately, I'm not France all by myself. I'm fine. :)
 
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