The Third World War 1989
- Thread starter AnthonyBoscia
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I seem to remember a situation where I had some of my units parked on a friendly airfield (I think it was the East German aifield next to Neusterlitz - I was playing he Soviets). As it happens, the NATO counteroffensive on turn 2 took Neusterlitz (bypassing my army) and the airfield also switched owners, but with my troops still on it. And then the Polish air force bombed the (now enemy) airfield and damaged my (Soviet) units stationed on it!
Something like it is in that thread
: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/airfield-sharing.430541/
AnthonyBoscia
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The airfield issue is an old one that shows up in any scenario with pre-placed airbases. Ownership switches to whomever took over the city. And the stupid ai will try to bomb air units on an airbase, even though they are invincible there. That's why the number of airbases on the map have been reduced to the minimum and represent an amalgam of real-world airbases. Also to cut down on the ai parking offensive-flagged units on their airbases and wasting them. But the fact that air units can't be bombed while on airbases saved me from having to make a hardened air shelter, which was actually going to be my first unit.
The music is not a trade secret, but let's just say I'm like Jackie Chan here and "I don't want any trouble!" So here are some songs that may or may not be related to anything happening in this thread. We'll say that their presence is a learning aid designed to invoke a sense of gravity regarding the historical significance of such comprehensive war preparation in the late Cold War, while simultaneously poking fun at the self-serious nature of the 80s technothriller.
The music is not a trade secret, but let's just say I'm like Jackie Chan here and "I don't want any trouble!" So here are some songs that may or may not be related to anything happening in this thread. We'll say that their presence is a learning aid designed to invoke a sense of gravity regarding the historical significance of such comprehensive war preparation in the late Cold War, while simultaneously poking fun at the self-serious nature of the 80s technothriller.
Spoiler :
Moff Jerjerrod
Deity
There is another bug with airfields that I discovered whilst playing World 2004 mod. If a friendly alliance member moves ground units to your empty airfield it will cause war to break out. Since the involved parties are members of an alliance they can never kill each others units. Making peace will only result in war the very next turn because the stubborn ai wants to put land units back on your empty airfield again.
Summary: Your empty airfield with no units at all in it will be occupied by ai land units as the ai is determined to posses the airfield. As a result war breaks out even between locked alliances.
Summary: Your empty airfield with no units at all in it will be occupied by ai land units as the ai is determined to posses the airfield. As a result war breaks out even between locked alliances.
Lionic
King
On the other hand if you capture a territory with guarded enemy airfield you may base your aircraft there. And have them protected by the enemy.
AnthonyBoscia
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The scenario is working again and now I'm playing for a change. Not modding, but actually playing the game. OK, fine, yes I was making corrections and editing files, but it was still a game.
I had another airbase poltergeist event. This time, I had RAF Brüggen hosting my air forces. Then the Dutch recaptured Essen. This didn't destroy the airbases or start a war amongst allies, but rebased all the aircraft there to Hamburg, which I had re-captured. This happens when your air forces are on a base in friendly territory, but changing city owners makes it re-calculate before making it a friendly city radius again. Never change, Civ 3.
NATO: Right, I think we've finally got the front line stabilized!
<Soviet Army has entered the chat>
Then the notification came that there was civil disorder in Belfast. Say it ain't so! Fortunately, quick identification of the lack of a critical civil improvement allowed us to immediately rectify said situation.
It's a little small in game but this is the symbol for "wasted" production.
I had another airbase poltergeist event. This time, I had RAF Brüggen hosting my air forces. Then the Dutch recaptured Essen. This didn't destroy the airbases or start a war amongst allies, but rebased all the aircraft there to Hamburg, which I had re-captured. This happens when your air forces are on a base in friendly territory, but changing city owners makes it re-calculate before making it a friendly city radius again. Never change, Civ 3.
NATO: Right, I think we've finally got the front line stabilized!
<Soviet Army has entered the chat>
Spoiler :
Then the notification came that there was civil disorder in Belfast. Say it ain't so! Fortunately, quick identification of the lack of a critical civil improvement allowed us to immediately rectify said situation.
Spoiler :
It's a little small in game but this is the symbol for "wasted" production.
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AnthonyBoscia
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One more thing. Citizens and specialists have always been a minor issue with Civ 3. The AI can't use them correctly, while the player can tweak them in what is usually a tedious task. Since this scenario is supposed to be about blowing your enemies to hell rather than fine-tuning your economy, I looked at buffing the "entertainer" character so it wouldn't be necessary for you to really mess with it. The plan was to make them service industry workers, and some time was wasted invested in trying to create new graphics and examine other mods for nice pop heads that would fit. It wasn't terribly satisfying but it came out Ok. Then it struck me...why even bother? So now we have the basic laborer, assumed to cover agriculture, mining, transportation, etc. that produces food and materials, and then we have the worker that covers service industries and other essential services. Right now the worker produces 1 happy face and 1 tax. There will be some re-balancing during test play, but this lowest common denominator solution levels the playing field, reduces tedium, and eliminates the crash that occurs when players click on specialists in this mod. Done.
Also, somehow credits got forgotten during development. This will be corrected in the game files and on the website by next release.
Also, somehow credits got forgotten during development. This will be corrected in the game files and on the website by next release.
Moff Jerjerrod
Deity
Interesting you mention what happens when an airbase owned by one civ falls into territory recently captured by another. This bug where ai friends declare war on each other when a land unit tries to move onto a friends airbase. A war is triggered, even between locked alliance friends, and the result is neither party can kill each other due to the non aggression against partners.
This bug happened to me multiple times in a recent game of World 2004 that I was playing. In that mod there are many airbases spread out throughout the map all owned by one nation but inside the territory of another nation. Locked Alliance declarations of war became rampant and once initiated could never be "peaced out" because as soon as peace was declared one ai civ would immediately try to occupy the other civs airbase within the first civs lands.
This so frustrated me I deleted every single one of those airbases and removed the "build airbase" flag from workers in that mod. I seriously started questioning whether airbases are needed at all in C3C as there is usually plenty of cities available in mods for staging aircraft.
This bug happened to me multiple times in a recent game of World 2004 that I was playing. In that mod there are many airbases spread out throughout the map all owned by one nation but inside the territory of another nation. Locked Alliance declarations of war became rampant and once initiated could never be "peaced out" because as soon as peace was declared one ai civ would immediately try to occupy the other civs airbase within the first civs lands.
This so frustrated me I deleted every single one of those airbases and removed the "build airbase" flag from workers in that mod. I seriously started questioning whether airbases are needed at all in C3C as there is usually plenty of cities available in mods for staging aircraft.
AnthonyBoscia
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Aircraft in cities are vulnerable to enemy bombing, while those on airbases are not. One turn as NATO would show why the aircraft are not pre-placed on cities, as there would be nothing left by the time they got their first move. The airbases in this scenario were placed on a case-by case basis, essentially reducing them to the absolute minimum. I also try to place them close to cities whenever possible to prevent culture swapping at the borders.
I know what you mean about the crazy problems with airbases. I haven't seen the locked allies declare war over it in this scenario, although perhaps others have. The next release will have mutual protection pacts removed as well to reduce these kinds of problems.
Speaking of which, the next version is a big improvement over the current 2017 version. There are a lot of changes, and total units are down from 6058 to 5346. Performance is much improved. Lots of corrections...it is going to require a fresh download when completed. One thing that's being adjusted is tech trees, especially for European NATO. Era 2 Mobilization will focus on your heavy land units. Era 3 gives you access to oil, military alliances with neutrals, and surplus equipment from the U.S. Era 4 will not just give naval, but also some air and light ground units. While working on it, I was reminded of the Wargame series where you had "decks of cards", and the available units were based on your deck. In the scenario, this is essentially the choice between giving preference to the Army, the cabinet, or the Navy/Air Force so to speak. So, the U.K. for example has light infantry, aircraft, and deployable units along with naval units in Era 4. Basically the idea is to make it more rewarding to choose your tech order, so that maybe you want to grab a few from each era, or plow through one particular era for the end bonuses. Right now I think it's too easy to just get oil and then race to Total Mobilization. Warsaw Pact of course is locked in one era, but this is to represent their more comprehensive and less schizophrenic mobilization plans. They are getting some nice bonuses and a more streamlined unit structure. Lionic had some great input here so expect more interesting choices and the addition of some Delta and Gwendoline units.
I know what you mean about the crazy problems with airbases. I haven't seen the locked allies declare war over it in this scenario, although perhaps others have. The next release will have mutual protection pacts removed as well to reduce these kinds of problems.
Speaking of which, the next version is a big improvement over the current 2017 version. There are a lot of changes, and total units are down from 6058 to 5346. Performance is much improved. Lots of corrections...it is going to require a fresh download when completed. One thing that's being adjusted is tech trees, especially for European NATO. Era 2 Mobilization will focus on your heavy land units. Era 3 gives you access to oil, military alliances with neutrals, and surplus equipment from the U.S. Era 4 will not just give naval, but also some air and light ground units. While working on it, I was reminded of the Wargame series where you had "decks of cards", and the available units were based on your deck. In the scenario, this is essentially the choice between giving preference to the Army, the cabinet, or the Navy/Air Force so to speak. So, the U.K. for example has light infantry, aircraft, and deployable units along with naval units in Era 4. Basically the idea is to make it more rewarding to choose your tech order, so that maybe you want to grab a few from each era, or plow through one particular era for the end bonuses. Right now I think it's too easy to just get oil and then race to Total Mobilization. Warsaw Pact of course is locked in one era, but this is to represent their more comprehensive and less schizophrenic mobilization plans. They are getting some nice bonuses and a more streamlined unit structure. Lionic had some great input here so expect more interesting choices and the addition of some Delta and Gwendoline units.
Any ETA on the new version? I mean rough guess in terms of this year or next.
AnthonyBoscia
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This year. Been working on something else the last couple weeks...not related to the scenario but you guys are going to like it. I've learned to follow inspiration when it strikes. Then back to WW3. If you're interested in playtesting the new version I could use some experienced eyes on it. Maybe in about a month or two (?) it should be in a solid state for testing. The goal was to have it done by end of year since all previous versions were December, but honestly it should be ready by Fall.
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Something with SpaceBattles ?
AnthonyBoscia
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Nothing that wild. Just more of the same junk I usually make.
Moff Jerjerrod
Deity
If you need any help Anthony just let me know. I'd be happy to help in any way.
CorvusFortis
Prince
Game crashes for me each time I scroll through specialists in cities. The exact moment, I think, when it goes from scientist to policeman. Did anyone encounter the same?
AnthonyBoscia
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Changing specialists or clicking the civilopedia from buildings in the city screen often results in a crash. The most likely cause of this is the sheer volume of calculations in the scenario due to its size. When the new version comes out, there will be only one specialist and clicking on it will not cause a crash. Until then, the best bet is not to click on them.
leihard7777
Warlord
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Look the file 'Art\SmallHeads/popHeads.pcx' in the scenario folder. Maybe there's no space for policeman and civil engineer. Try cutting and pasting that part from the original popHeads file of the Conquest.
Gimp2 is highly recommended for editing pcx files.
Last edited:
Belofon
Chieftain
From what I see in popheads.pcx icons for policemen and engineers are simply not present - may be this causes crashes?
Also, here is another problem. When I've played this scenario in hotseat mode via multiplayer tool, the game was crashing with message "Unable to allocate draw-buffer; terminating program" every time when I've opened city screen as any player other than the first one:
(note: the message itself has already been closed)Does anyone know about this issue and its causes?
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There are dozens of questions about that problem at CFC, but there is no proper answer yet. The nearest to trying an answer until now is Puppeteer, posting that generally it seems to be a DirectX version issue: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...draw-buffer-terminating.439149/#post-10868461
Other think it is a memory issue (graphic of RAM memory has run out).
Some other posts about that message:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/1989-scenario-development-thread.428362/page-7#post-11810829
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-31#post-15742183
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/page-31#post-15742283
... and there are many, many more - but no proper answers. Mostly that problem disappeared after new installing Civ 3.
CorvusFortis
Prince
I removed popheads file from art folder and the game indeed stopped crushing when I am cycling through specialists. Engineers are really important for small countries (like mine Czechoslovakia), since there are not enough tiles for all laborers and improvement construction takes quite a while without them.
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