The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Perfection]

One of the problems is that criminals don't obey our laws.They do what they want. Nor do suicides. And really, neither do cops. The purpose of ever increasing gun control legislation appears not to be to prevent gun violence, but rather to pile up criminal penalties on the rare occasion a shooter is actually brought to justice.

As a law abiding citizen, I would never shoot you (unless you threaten my family). To punish me with endless gun control, while criminals remain unaffected, doesn't seem rational.

Criminals are people, they do what's easy. If it's harder for them to get a gun, it's likely they'll say "screw it" and do something else.

To put this in perspective, note that practically no mass shooter in the US uses automatic weapons, is it because they don't want them? No it's because they're banned.

 

[Bugfatty300]

To put this in perspective, note that practically no mass shooter in the US uses automatic weapons, is it because they don't want them? No it's because they're banned.

Harder to obtain. Not banned. But the type of automatic weapons used in Las Vegas are completely unregulated and have been around for decades and that was the first time I'd ever heard of their use in a mass murder incident.

 

[Perfection]

Harder to obtain. Not banned.

Either way I believe my point stands.

But the type of automatic weapons used in Las Vegas are completely unregulated and have been around for decades and that was the first time I'd ever heard of their use in a mass murder incident.

bump stock weapons are hard to control because the barrel moves back and forth with every shot. Effective at shooting a defenseless crowd from a height. Not so good for shooting within a building.

 

[metalhead]

Except that's not the argument that's being made. The argument is there is no legitimate reason to implement laws that would turn currently law-abiding citizens into criminals overnight when those laws will have absolutely zero impact on the current criminals they are supposedly being implemented to stop.

That's a silly argument though, because of course the existence of laws prevents behavior prohibited by those laws. Likewise, making it harder to engage in criminal behavior prevents criminal behavior.

It's not just about current criminals either, that's dishonest framing. It's about all potential future criminals as well. The laws can be made such that they don't turn everyone into "criminals overnight," too, so that's more dishonest framing.

If you want your side of the argument taken seriously, the least you should do is make honest points, not just toss out dishonest garbage and let that stand as you making a salient point.

 

[rah]

Has the last 88 pages not taught you anything?

 

[Lexicus]

The whole conceptual distinction between "criminals" and "law-abiding citizens" is nonsense anyway and generally rooted in racism (a class of people whose salient trait is their inherent criminality...where have I heard that idea before....)

 

[Farm Boy]

bump stock weapons are hard to control because the barrel moves back and forth with every shot. Effective at shooting a defenseless crowd from a height. Not so good for shooting within a building.

That's because they're being shot automatic. Never particularly precise. Still pretty effective at distances within a building. People are pretty big targets when at all close.

 

[El_Machinae]

You get around Commodore's fine point by just putting limits on new sales. Make grandfathered ownership legal. New sales are under the license-to-buy.

 

[Farm Boy]

Pretending again?

 

[rah]

But that's one step closer to taking away their guns so it can not be tolerated.

 

[El_Machinae]

But that's one step closer to taking away their guns so it can not be tolerated.

It directly conflicts with the 2A, yes. But two people have mentioned "the law turns normal people into criminals" (at least), and I think it's a good point.

When I think of how I want guns in my world, my main goal is restricting access to those who will use them badly. It's a privilege. A car rental agency checks to see if you have a driver's license. But if you have one, we then care if you're insured by the time you put a key in the ignition.

 

[metalhead]

You get around Commodore's fine point by just putting limits on new sales. Make grandfathered ownership legal. New sales are under the license-to-buy.

Or just give people a grace period, under which the government will buy back all newly illegal weapons at fair market value from before any such ban went into effect.

 

[El_Machinae]

Or just give people a grace period, under which the government will buy back all newly illegal weapons at fair market value from before any such ban went into effect.

I'm less satisfied with that. It's insisting upon a compromise to his point rather than acknowledging it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting policy. I'm just declaring what actions could improve gun safety without making people criminals.

You don't need a grace period, even. You just need a good buyback price. It doesn't need to be 'fair market value'

 

[EgonSpengler]

I heard on the radio this morning that Nashville had over 600 guns stolen from people's cars last year. In Memphis, it was over 1,200. The Tennessee Department of Investigation says that more than 4,000 guns were stolen from cars in 2017. A state congressman who voted for the law that made it easier for people to keep a gun in their car said, "It didn't cross my mind that we would have that many stupid people with weapons in their cars."

After Missouri passed a law making it easier to carry a weapon, St. Louis and Kansas City saw increases in guns stolen from cars. "'We have had groups of individuals that are really breaking into cars just looking for weapons,' says Capt. Renee Kriesmann, commander of the downtown district of St. Louis where the thefts have been most common. She says thefts are especially concentrated in parking lots around sporting events."

NPR, May 9, 2019 - More guns in cars means more guns stolen from cars

 

[cardgame]

Well, since the only real problem is that people are leaving their guns in their cars, the solution is simple: mandatory carry

now the next mass shooting can be a battle royale instead

 

[Lexicus]

Well, since the only real problem is that people are leaving their guns in their cars, the solution is simple: mandatory carry

now the next mass shooting can be a battle royale instead

The solution is for everyone to turn their car into a technical, duh

 

[rah]

The solution is for everyone to turn their car into a technical, duh

I'm feeling stupid this morning, so I'll bite. What does that even mean?

 

[Lexicus]

This is a technical

Just a car (usually a pickup truck but really can be any car) with a weapon mounted on it.

 

[rah]

Ah, thx. Never heard that before.

 

[El_Machinae]

My turret-mounted Smith&Wesson looks baller on my Camero