The Thread Where We Discuss Guns and Gun Control

[Estebonrober]

Interesting note here on gun control/gun availability and firearm homicide.

The U.S. is only ranked #15 worldwide for firearm homicide, while the countries ranked #1-14 have a combined gun availability of a mere 10% of what the United States has, but a combined homicide rate of 460% of the United States. To follow the trend set by these other countries, assuming gun availability as the cause, the United States would need to kill 670,000 people every single year with firearms.

Guess what these 14 countries actually have in common that could motivate such violence? Political and economic instability. Poor standards of living, inequality, all things that the United States also sucks at compared to first world nations. It's not about the guns. It's about what makes people use them.

See this is at least sort of an original thought, I used to think that humans were just going to have to get used to the responsibility of owning guns like huge groups have to get used to owning nuclear weapons. If we are not mature enough to handle those responsibly then well we just suck a s a species. Then Sandy Hook happened, and frankly there need to be a middle ground found on sick people that yea pretty much violates their second amendment rights the way the second amendment is interpreted these days anyways.

 

[Sommerswerd]

See, we can agree on something. The only change I'd make to your post would be to replace "left wingers" with "Americans".

Which I think is something that's starting to happen. Two guys just got busted for trying to sell dozens, yes dozens, of home manufactured firearms to what they thought was a member of ISIS but turned out to be an FBI agent. So if these guys were able to manufacture dozens of firearms before getting caught, just imagine how many are out there that aren't getting caught.

Personally, I love it. Modern technology is pretty much making all gun laws unenforceable as long as you are smart about it and don't try to sell your ghost guns to terrorists.

3D printing guns is just a newer, more readily available version of a practice that was already occurring in significant numbers, at least overseas. "Ghost guns" were being produced in black market shops using stolen and or copied/counterfeit molds of popular gun manufacturers, then shipped to the US and other countries as truly untraceable firearms specifically intended to be used by criminals.

I do think however, that incidents like the one you describe are exactly the kind of thing that will illicit a massive crackdown on 3D printing of firearms. Especially when you combine the Conservatives gun-lobby backing with their hard-line focus on terrorism/homeland security measures... mixed that with the Democrats already calling for gun regulation... its a perfect storm... Republicans will get to support "gun regulation" while simultaneously protecting their corporate backers control of the market. Oh were not protecting our sponsors' monopoly, we're supporting commonsense gun control and anti terrorism measures.

 

[Farm Boy]

Unless you're a farmer living in the arse-end of nowhere.
But then again, those are usually long-rifles and shotguns. Not handguns/pistols.

What about farmers that live somewhere?

Either way, it's the shotguns and rifles that have the Starbucks suburban scared. Social foes, flashy news, etc.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yep, the AR-15 is a rifle, ie a long-gun, not a handgun.

 

[rah]

are exactly the kind of thing that will illicit a massive crackdown on 3D printing of firearms.

I don't see how effective any crackdown could be.

 

[cardgame]

They will probably try banning it from the net. If they have the political backing and resources to see such a measure through, it could potentially be accessible only in the same places that cp is. In the most extreme case that I can't personally imagine here, but perhaps elsewhere like Singapore or China - all files with .3dp extensions (that's a stand-in for 3d printer accessible file names) would be automatically censored and removed. Not sure how effective that would actually be but it's something someone might try.

 

[rah]

It's not like anyone has ever changed a file extension name............................

 

[Commodore]

3D printing guns is just a newer, more readily available version of a practice that was already occurring in significant numbers, at least overseas. "Ghost guns" were being produced in black market shops using stolen and or copied/counterfeit molds of popular gun manufacturers, then shipped to the US and other countries as truly untraceable firearms specifically intended to be used by criminals.

You don't even need to 3D print a gun. Right now you can buy what is called an "80% lower" which is basically an incomplete lower receiver and make a gun from that. Those 80% lowers don't require a serial number nor is there any legal obligation to record how many have been manufactured or sold since they technically don't count as firearms according to current definitions. All you have to do is finish milling out the lower receiver then purchase all the other components (which also don't have serial numbers or have to be tracked for the same reason 80% lowers don't) and assemble your firearm.

And all this is 100% percent legal as long as you keep the gun for personal use and don't transfer or sell it to anyone. If you want to sell/transfer it, then you have to report it to the ATF and get a serial number stamped or otherwise permanently engraved on the gun. That's also why whenever someone asks the government how many privately owned guns there are in the US, they just kinda shrug their shoulders and say "maybe a few million, but we're not really sure."

 

[Sommerswerd]

I don't see how effective any crackdown could be.

At least as effective as the drug war or prohibition... and probably twice as fun!

 

[Broken_Erika]

I don't see how effective any crackdown could be.

It's easy, they just flood the internet with incomplete and random .3dp files sharing the same name as the gun .3dp files. Kinda like how someone kept uploading broken MP3 files to P2P services and how every movie and game i downloaded was a poor-quality copy of Zoolander.

 

[rah]

And if you just look hard enough you'll find one.

 

[Estebonrober]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...oting-what-we-know-texas-shooting/1911030001/

20 dead 26 injured last count.

 

[Estebonrober]

El Paso Police Chief Greg Allen says authorities are investigating a hate crime as among the possible motives in the shopping complex shooting that left 20 people dead and 26 more wounded.

https://www.boston.com/news/politic...lice-say-most-el-paso-victims-shot-at-walmart

 

[Estebonrober]

Fwiw I was in a Wal-Mart today despite self because it is tax free weekend on school supplies here in MO. I saved 15 bucks. lol. . .

Jesus fudging Christ.

 

[Arwon]

Another stochastic white supremacist act of mass murder/terrorism.

 

[Estebonrober]

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Another stochastic white supremacist act of mass murder/terrorism.

Don't worry though, in the right wing echo chamber it has already been identified as "planned and executed by Democrats to push their evil gun control agenda."

 

[Kaitzilla]

So apparently the 21-year old nutjob put a screed on ***** hours before shooting up a packed Wal-Mart.

Here is the manifesto for anyone who can stomach reading it.
*Snip*

Since it happened in Texas, death penalty is guaranteed.

Ugh, so sick and senseless.


**Edit**
Mmm, that's a good point Arwon, I'll snip it.

 

[Arwon]

It's boilerplate white replacement conspiracy theory typical of modern internet fascists and their supporters.

There's really just no need to reproduce and perpetuate these manifestos and give murderous nazis more publicity and notoriety.

Except perhaps to note the bleedthrough of popular and now mainstream rhetoric and political policies into this kind of individually random but collectively very predictable violence. You can't have prominent public figures banging on and on and on loudly and publicly, through every medium, about how immigration is a huge threat, and be surprised when some dudes take you seriously and convince themselves they are righteous soldiers in a war to maintain white supremacy.

 

[Estebonrober]

Authorities are investigating a manifesto in connection with the shooting.
Law enforcement officials are studying an anti-immigrant manifesto to determine whether it was written by the gunman, according to a local law enforcement official who has been briefed on the investigation. Given the manifesto’s racially extremist views, it could make the killings a federal hate crime or an act of domestic terrorism if officials determine that it is tied to the shootings.

It declares support for the gunman who killed 51 in Christchurch, New Zealand, outlines fears about Hispanic people gaining power in the United States and appears to discuss specific details about elements of the attack, including weapons.

“Hispanics will take control of the local and state government of my beloved Texas, changing policy to better suit their needs,” the manifesto said. It added that politicians of both parties are to blame for the United States “rotting from the inside out,” but that “the heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/03/us/el-paso-walmart-shooting.html