The Very-Many-Questions-Not-Worth-Their-Own-Thread Thread XXXIV

[Traitorfish]

Na, that part makes sense.
The internal logic doesnt make sense too much sense.
“There are men who hate lesbians that much that they undergo gender reassignment surgery, to make them secretly and against their will love men (in the form of women) again.“
I follow thathat logic, but it makes the flat earth theory sound really reasonable.

A lot of early "gender-critical" feminism is pretty heavily influenced by psychoanalysis. "Everybody is a pathological weirdo" is taken as something of a premise, for them, and "men, specifically, are all pathological weirdos" is an article of faith. As this pathology is in good Freudian fashion attributed to upbringing, the critical question is not identity or even biology but socialisation. Somebody who is socialised as a man is assumed to carry the standard bundle of male pathologies, however they present or identify themselves. They don't imagine transgenderism as a conspiracy so much as a form of slow burning mass hysteria.

It's still nasty, bigoted and senseless, don't get me wrong, but it's worth pinning down what we're actually looking at.

 

[The_J]

Mmmhh... if that is the logic... what's then the reason a trans person exists?
If they are filled with the male pathologies, why would they want to be a woman?

(Not questioning if your explanation is what these ppl think, just trying to follow)

That's not the logic, the logic is that wider society treating such people as women reflects underlying prejudice against lesbians. It's totally idiotic of course.

Okay, on this you will have to elaborate, because I cannot follow it :/.

 

[Samson]

I found their blog, but I am still pretty confused about what exactly they are against. The main strands seem to be:

• Against young lesbians being pressured to transition. I agree they should not be pressured one way or another, but does this pressure exist, and is it coming from the trans politics (with uncritical support from the LGBT movement)? I see no reason to believe this, and no evidence is presented.
• Lesbians should not be pressured / coerced into sex with trans women. Again, who is doing this pressuring of who? No evidence is presented.
  
• That "women maintain the right to sex-segregated spaces at the exclusion of male". I guess this is the bathroom debate from the US? Are toilets that much of an issue? If they are talking about rape and domestic violence shelters, I think they have a point
• "We oppose proposed changes to the GRA and view self-identification as a threat to women’s and girls rights." No idea.

 

[Lexicus]

Okay, on this you will have to elaborate, because I cannot follow it :/.

By tolerating trans people and accepting them as they want to be accepted, society is essentially joining in the crime of forcing lesbians to carry on with people who are really men. That's their logic.

• "We oppose proposed changes to the GRA and view self-identification as a threat to women’s and girls rights." No idea.

I don't know about the GRA, but the second bit of this just means that they think not making trans people identify as the gender they were assigned at birth threatens the rights of women and girls.

@The_J, this is one aspect of what I meant when I said they think the wider society is being anti-lesbian by treating trans people they way they want to be treated.

 

[civvver]

so who do the TLs have sex with? Other TLs?

 

[Traitorfish]

Mmmhh... if that is the logic... what's then the reason a trans person exists?
If they are filled with the male pathologies, why would they want to be a woman?

(Not questioning if your explanation is what these ppl think, just trying to follow)

I think they interpret trans women as performing a sort of fetishised pantomime of femininity, that it represents a way of controlling women by acting out femininity on their behalf. They tend to interpret traditional femininity, and more broadly conventional femininity, as a deranged male fantasy projected onto women, and attempts by biological males to perform this femininity, from cross-dressers to drag queens to tarns women, represent a way of playing out this fantasy first-hand.

 

[Cutlass]

Until you said that, I had no idea who Dachs' avatar was supposed to be.

She's moderately well know. Even by people like me who don't even listen to that genre of music.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

A lot of early "gender-critical" feminism is pretty heavily influenced by psychoanalysis. "Everybody is a pathological weirdo" is taken as something of a premise, for them, and "men, specifically, are all pathological weirdos" is an article of faith. As this pathology is in good Freudian fashion attributed to upbringing, the critical question is not identity or even biology but socialisation. Somebody who is socialised as a man is assumed to carry the standard bundle of male pathologies, however they present or identify themselves. They don't imagine transgenderism as a conspiracy so much as a form of slow burning mass hysteria.

It's still nasty, bigoted and senseless, don't get me wrong, but it's worth pinning down what we're actually looking at.

Bingo.

I think they interpret trans women as performing a sort of fetishised pantomime of femininity, that it represents a way of controlling women by acting out femininity on their behalf. They tend to interpret traditional femininity, and more broadly conventional femininity, as a deranged male fantasy projected onto women, and attempts by biological males to perform this femininity, from cross-dressers to drag queens to tarns women, represent a way of playing out this fantasy first-hand.

Again, bingo.

Summed up quite well, actually. It's still the stupidest thing that I've heard in months, but I can sort of follow the convoluted logic. It does sound like a bunch of university students with nothing better to do, though...

 

[Takhisis]

It reminds me of the contradictions between (mostly) heterosexual people here who want to neutralise grammatical gender and people of various non-binary sexualities who actually prefer to use adjectives and pronouns inflected by gender to refer to themselves to better portray their mixed identities. Something's gotta give here.

 

[Dachs]

It does sound like a bunch of university students with nothing better to do, though...

Actually, the most vocal TERFs are academics and writers with real platforms.

 

[civvver]

Do you guys track what you eat? I did yesterday and nothing was too surprising except the amount of calories I consume from fat was really high. These are rough estimates as I didn't weigh all my food exactly, but for breakfast I had some cereal, lunch was a bagged salad with a leftover homemade cheeseburger, dinner was a sweet potato, broccoli and cauliflower and salmon.

1800 calories approx, 101g fat (~50% of calories), 114 carbs (~25%), 111 protein (~25%), 20 grams of fiber. I also drank two beers for ~300 calories but didn't include them in calorie percentages, cus I don't know how many carbs they are.

Two observations I made were I was really full all day. I usually eat a lot more carbs like chips with lunch and regular potatoes or rice or pasta with dinner. I think eating a lot of protein and fat really satiated me. The other thing was how much fat I ate, most of it came from salad dressing. It was a pre-bagged salad, not even that big like four cups? But it had 44 grams of fat. I want to lose weight but am not actively dieting, just trying to eat healthier, homemade food, no fast food or sugary snacks. Though the beers probably contradict that.

 

[Synobun]

That's a lot of protein. Good ratio.

It's my opinion that caloric percentages don't really matter unless you have specific dietary needs. Could be wrong, but I haven't seen much impact on healthy people when they get into ratio shenaniganery. Just focusing on what you're eating should be reasonable enough.

My diet is 15% protein, 65% carbs, 20% fat. Between 12-15 grams of fiber. Carbs would go way down if I cut out soda.

 

[civvver]

Yeah me too with alcohol. I have a pretty bad habit of a bag of chips and a beer or two watching tv/video games most nights. That's 300-500 empty calories a day. Yesterday I had one drink to relax but skipped the snack cus I was still stuffed from my salmon dinner. Fish makes me feel fuller longer than any other meat. I read a study once that proved as much too, due to the omega 3s in fish that are lacking in chicken or beef.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Which would you choose?

1. Your country wins the FIFA World Cup, or
2. Your club wins the UEFA Champions League

 

[Synobun]

3. Toronto wins the Stanley Cup

 

[sophie]

I'd take the World Cup any day.

 

[shadowplay]

Which would you choose?

1. Your country wins the FIFA World Cup, or
2. Your club wins the UEFA Champions League

World cup!

3. Toronto wins the Stanley Cup

Leafs win the World Cup!

 

[The_J]

By tolerating trans people and accepting them as they want to be accepted, society is essentially joining in the crime of forcing lesbians to carry on with people who are really men. That's their logic.

i thought this was somehow what i wad getting at.

Makes me also wonder how gay trans-men fit in there.

I think they interpret trans women as performing a sort of fetishised pantomime of femininity, that it represents a way of controlling women by acting out femininity on their behalf. They tend to interpret traditional femininity, and more broadly conventional femininity, as a deranged male fantasy projected onto women, and attempts by biological males to perform this femininity, from cross-dressers to drag queens to tarns women, represent a way of playing out this fantasy first-hand.

Someone needs to introduce these people to occams razor. Way to many hops in there.

Do you guys track what you eat? I did yesterday and nothing was too surprising except the amount of calories I consume from fat was really high. These are rough estimates as I didn't weigh all my food exactly, but for breakfast I had some cereal, lunch was a bagged salad with a leftover homemade cheeseburger, dinner was a sweet potato, broccoli and cauliflower and salmon.

1800 calories approx, 101g fat (~50% of calories), 114 carbs (~25%), 111 protein (~25%), 20 grams of fiber. I also drank two beers for ~300 calories but didn't include them in calorie percentages, cus I don't know how many carbs they are.

Two observations I made were I was really full all day. I usually eat a lot more carbs like chips with lunch and regular potatoes or rice or pasta with dinner. I think eating a lot of protein and fat really satiated me. The other thing was how much fat I ate, most of it came from salad dressing. It was a pre-bagged salad, not even that big like four cups? But it had 44 grams of fat. I want to lose weight but am not actively dieting, just trying to eat healthier, homemade food, no fast food or sugary snacks. Though the beers probably contradict that.

Yeah, it's important to check for the hidden calories. Sometimes you are surprised about what is really unhealthy.

 

[Lexicus]

Someone needs to introduce these people to occams razor. Way to many hops in there.

Meh. They're not entirely wrong about that.

 

[cardgame]

Their ideas on "gender colonialism" etc. are about as 'not entirely wrong' as numerology