There are more of us than there are of them

[Phrossack]

Shifty Synsensa and Pudgy Phrossack are attacking you with their fake news WITCH HUNT covfefe

For the record, I'm of average weight and the "Ph" is pronounced as an "f"!

 

[Hygro]

I might have to report a coordinated attempt at character assassination. I have at least seven posters involved now.

You have some people unconvinced by your argument that we cannot trust people to wield power to stop others and you have others drinking to your writing style and while there’s overlap, overall it’s two different camps within this thread. And it’s definitely spontaneous not coordinated.

But..

I happen to agree with a lot of what you say but then you take it past my point of agreement so I let you stand for yourself in the debate. The question of who can be trusted to suppress others is a good one and that it’s never answered but might evoke a “it’s telling that you would even go there” is telling that when asked directly, people won’t even go there.

No need to take it personally, I have been accused of all of the same as you earlier, everyone forgets how left wing I am when I’m not in the throws of depression reacting to pains and considered-about threats but instead giving actionable suggestions to create a better world for everyone but also for my own team (in a Neo-Manichaean sense I suppose, drink up everyone) which bears the trappings of not my team because they are new unfamiliar ideas and unfamiliar ideas usually means ideas from the other team so therefore are bad.

 

[Lexicus]

Shifty Synsensa and Pudgy Phrossack are attacking you with their fake news WITCH HUNT covfefe

Don't forget lyin' low-energy Lexicus

I happen to agree with a lot of what you say but then you take it past my point of agreement so I let you stand for yourself in the debate. The question of who can be trusted to suppress others is a good one and that it’s never answered but might evoke a “it’s telling that you would even go there” is telling that when asked directly, people won’t even go there.

No one has really proposed any tactics in this thread thus far. All we have is some very abstract ideas about treating the far-right as a threat.

A cautionary note: there already exists ample precedent for laws supposedly passed to deal with terrorism being used to put the boot on the neck of marginalized people.

 

[ashendashin]

You have some people unconvinced by your argument that we cannot trust people to wield power to stop others and you have others drinking to your writing style and while there’s overlap, overall it’s two different camps within this thread. And it’s definitely spontaneous not coordinated.

Personally I think the tenaciousness shown by Patine is rather impressive. Ranting I'd usually dismiss instead reinforces a relatively respectable position here, especially on an "us vs. them" thread.
You're not gonna convince anyone to be friendlier on such binary terms. Questioning the validity of 'left vs right' on the scale presented in media would make more sense if you want to be genuine on that front.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Ah yes truly I am as bad as the people who openly advocate for my removal from society by any means necessary, all because I have the temerity to openly advocate against that happening, what a terrible person I am for not laying down and accepting my apportioned fate.

Not all of us have the luxury of being complacent, especially when even just going outside or to the toilet can lead to dangerous situations.

I give up, it's like talking to a brick wall at this point.

 

[Hygro]

Ah yes truly I am as bad as the people who openly advocate for my removal from society by any means necessary, all because I have the temerity to openly advocate against that happening, what a terrible person I am for not laying down and accepting my apportioned fate.

Not all of us have the luxury of being complacent, especially when even just going outside or to the toilet can lead to dangerous situations.

I give up, it's like talking to a brick wall at this point.

The brick wall is a mirror, none of us are telling anyone to be complacent. Indeed it’s literally the point of my thread. There are 60,000,000 conservatives in the United States and depending on how good you are at being social you and two friends can make friends with two of them.

Gorbles made a point earlier that he prefers that the reaction against The Reaction stays both grassroots and illegal, so that it cannot become institutionalized. It’s not a fully satisfying answer but it’s an interesting one.

 

[Lexicus]

Gorbles made a point earlier that he prefers that the reaction against The Reaction stays both grassroots and illegal, so that it cannot become institutionalized. It’s not a fully satisfying answer but it’s an interesting one.

I guess that's close to my position. The state institutions are fundamentally white supremacist and can't be relied upon.

 

[Farm Boy]

I might have to report a coordinated attempt at character assassination.

But in the take it down a notch camp. Remember, this is the internet. There are *******s on the internet. I mean, I come here.

 

[Hygro]

I guess that's close to my position. The state institutions are fundamentally white supremacist and can't be relied upon.

That’s not even close to the same.

 

[Lexicus]

That’s not even close to the same.

Well, let Gorbles answer that question. I suspect he does have the same fear I do, but you might be right.

 

[Truthy]

You have some people unconvinced by your argument that we cannot trust people to wield power to stop others and you have others drinking to your writing style and while there’s overlap, overall it’s two different camps within this thread. And it’s definitely spontaneous not coordinated.

But..

I happen to agree with a lot of what you say but then you take it past my point of agreement so I let you stand for yourself in the debate. The question of who can be trusted to suppress others is a good one and that it’s never answered but might evoke a “it’s telling that you would even go there” is telling that when asked directly, people won’t even go there.

No need to take it personally, I have been accused of all of the same as you earlier, everyone forgets how left wing I am when I’m not in the throws of depression reacting to pains and considered-about threats but instead giving actionable suggestions to create a better world for everyone but also for my own team (in a Neo-Manichaean sense I suppose, drink up everyone) which bears the trappings of not my team because they are new unfamiliar ideas and unfamiliar ideas usually means ideas from the other team so therefore are bad.

Yeah @Patine I reckon a lot of us at least sort of agree with you (insofar as we understand your writing style). I do. But your posts are freakin hilarious

 

[ashendashin]

Yeah @Patine I reckon a lot of us at least sort of agree with you (insofar as we understand your writing style). I do. But your posts are freakin hilarious

I don't find them funny at all. The eagerness many in OT show for continuing polarized politics is mind boggling to the point that the patience needed to discuss with such people begs some form of reinforcement. His posting style is understandable to me in that light.

 

[Phrossack]

I don't find them funny at all. The eagerness many in OT show for continuing polarized politics is mind boggling to the point that the patience needed to discuss with such people begs some form of reinforcement. His posting style is understandable to me in that light.

There's nothing understandable about believing that over half a dozen people are sinisterly plotting an assassination of his character and that all conflicts he has with others are someone else's fault. There's nothing understandable about repeated accusations of mental illness, or armchair psychiatry, or screaming orders to others as if they were new recruits at boot camp. And there is nothing understandable about going into thesaurus-assault tirades that claim that everyone else is an extremist idiot and only he is reasonable.

It's an unfortunate but very real fact that American politics are intensely polarized now, with little to no common ground. It's also fact that opposition to extreme authoritarianism is not the same as such authoritarianism, and since neither @Cloud_Strife nor @MaryKB have advocated the imprisonment or execution of political opponents, it is indecent, dishonest, and malicious to repeatedly insist that they are just the equal and opposite counterpart to fascists.

 

[ashendashin]

There's nothing understandable about believing that over half a dozen people are sinisterly plotting an assassination of his character and that all conflicts he has with others are someone else's fault. There's nothing understandable about repeated accusations of mental illness, or armchair psychiatry, or screaming orders to others as if they were new recruits at boot camp. And there is nothing understandable about going into thesaurus-assault tirades that claim that everyone else is an extremist idiot and only he is reasonable.

It's an unfortunate but very real fact that American politics are intensely polarized now, with little to no common ground. It's also fact that opposition to extreme authoritarianism is not the same as such authoritarianism, and since neither @Cloud_Strife nor @MaryKB have advocated the imprisonment or execution of political opponents, it is indecent, dishonest, and malicious to repeatedly insist that they are just the equal and opposite counterpart to fascists.

Sure. The hostility present here is his fault entirely. All things are set in stone and unquestionable. Civil strife based on social issues with no clear cut lines, goals, or groups yay.

Edit:
Sorry, I didn't really try. This is much too overt for my taste.

 

[cardgame]

It's a lot easier to be Patine-style neutral when nobody (the right) is actively coming for you.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Patine would have me wait until the right are swinging at me, however by then it would be too late.

 

[Akka]

It's also fact that opposition to extreme authoritarianism is not the same as such authoritarianism

True, but the entire point is that they're not fighting authoritarianism, they just want to have their own authoritarianism instead of a right-wing one.

and since neither @Cloud_Strife nor @MaryKB have advocated the imprisonment or execution of political opponents

Actually they do, just in a roundabout way. Which is, again, the whole point of the opposition to their hypocrital moral posturing and the reason why the "you're the same sort than you denounce" comes back often.

 

[Senethro]

True, but the entire point is that they're not fighting authoritarianism, they just want to have their own authoritarianism instead of a right-wing one.

Based on what though? Is this a reasonable assumption?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Based on what though? Is this a reasonable assumption?

Well, there is that basic human nature thing that suggests it is at least probable.

 

[Senethro]

Well, there is that basic human nature thing that suggests it is at least probable.

Its a criticism you can make of everyone though. Everyone has the potential to secretly be the reincarnation of Stalin.