There are more of us than there are of them

[aimeeandbeatles]

If you click on a username, it's on the little popup. I don't use it myself.

 

[Berzerker]

Hang in there Patine, but may I suggest using paragraphs and more periods?

 

[Zardnaar]

If you click on a username, it's on the little popup. I don't use it myself.

Ah yeah it has to be fairly bad before I use it. Thick skin.

 

[Patine]

That seems to defeats the point of arguing with them in the first place.

Ah yeah it has to be fairly bad before I use it. Thick skin.

I've already taken a lot of abuse and slander from that bunch as it is. Even the Baron von Masoch would be impressed. But everyone has a point of quitting banging one's head against a particular brick wall - unless is braindead or has no perspective on things. But I have finally reached my quitting point, there.

 

[Zardnaar]

I've already taken a lot of abuse and slander from that bunch as it is. Even the Baron von Masoch would be impressed. But everyone has a point of quitting banging one's head against a particular brick wall - unless is braindead or has no perspective on things. But I have finally reached my quitting point, there.

Americans.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Someone who he isn't ignoring should suggest to Patine that he clean up these posts since discussing who you are ignoring is explicitly against forum rules.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I'm predicting this thread will get shut down if it goes on much longer.

 

[Dekker]

Ignoring posters is censorship can't believe Patine would stoop to that

 

[Zardnaar]

Ignoring posters is censorship can't believe Patine would stoop to that

Not really he's not stopping anyone else from reading it.

Plenty of stuff I don't read. I don't care if you do.

 

[Dekker]

Not really he's not stopping anyone else from reading it.

Plenty of stuff I don't read. I don't care if you do.

He's taking advantage of a system designed to protect him from the speech of others. So much for free speech!

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Not really he's not stopping anyone else from reading it.

Plenty of stuff I don't read. I don't care if you do.

Question...

If I think about posting <whatever odd bit>, but then for some reason I decide not to post it, is that censorship?

 

[Zardnaar]

He's taking advantage of a system designed to protect him from the speech of others. So much for free speech!

He's not impeding on your ability to say whatever.

That's all free speech is. You're allowed to express yourself, doesn't mean you have to provide a megaphone or listen to whoever.

 

[Synobun]

He's not impeding on your ability to say whatever.

That's all free speech is. You're allowed to express yourself, doesn't mean you have to provide a megaphone or listen to whoever.

Didn't you make a thread decrying exactly this

 

[Zardnaar]

Question...

If I think about posting <whatever odd bit>, but then for some reason I decide not to post it, is that censorship?

Not that's the thing between your brain and your mouth/hand that goes is this the best way to express whatever it is you're saying.

Didn't you make a thread decrying exactly this

I also said u believe in consequences.

All free speech means is the government won't send you to jail for expressing your opinion.

It doesn't protect you from job loss, being ostracized, etc.

 

[Dekker]

He's not impeding on your ability to say whatever.

That's all free speech is. You're allowed to express yourself, doesn't mean you have to provide a megaphone or listen to whoever.

He is, he can't hear it! What kind of snowflake behavior is it to want to be able to moderate the kind of speech he finds hurtful and offensive from spreading in a public forum! What's next, everyone is able to censor anyone and there's no more discussion!?!

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/what-does-free-speech-mean.652088/

 

[Dekker]

Didn't you make a thread decrying exactly this

Yes Zard is very selective in what he defends and when.

 

[Zardnaar]

He is, he can't hear it! What kind of snowflake behavior is it to want to be able to moderate the kind of speech he finds hurtful and offensive from spreading in a public forum! What's next, everyone is able to censor anyone and there's no more discussion!?!

There's this saying, it's not what you say but how you say it.

Yes Zard is very selective in what he defends and when.

No you don't have to do stuff you don't want to.

If I start a thread no one's forcing you to read it and there's no one stopping me posting it subject to the normal forum rules. Which I last read 2003 or so.

If you want to go and get up on a soapbox with a megaphone and say whatever you have my full support knock yourself out.

Doesn't mean passerbys have to listen to it.

What you do is up to you, it's imposing your beliefs on someone else is the difference.

 

[Dekker]

There's this saying, it's not what you say but how you say it.

Yes Patine screeching about how ANY more of censorship leads to death camps and then takes advantage of a censorship tool shows that what he says and how he says is a hypocritical load of rubbish and reveals the lack of any semblance of nuance or rationality to his viewpoints.

 

[Berzerker]

In your hypothetical, shame and intolerance are explicitly mobilised to moderate the racist. He is placed under an authority which disapproves of racism. He is placed in a position where expressing or acting upon racist views would create tension and a backlash- implicitly, a backlash with official approval. He is forced into a position where his racism behaviour has direct and negative consequences for him. If these consequences do not exist, there is no reason to believe that his racist views or behaviour will be "diluted". You are just blithely assuming that exposing racists to non-racists will turn racists into non-racists- and at the same time that this dynamic only works in one direction, that exposure to racists does turn non-racists into racists. This assumption has no clear basis.

Well, not so much shame and intolerance. I did cite a corporation frowning on hiring racists but if racists want a job they'll just with hold that part of their lives from the screeners. If the consequences didn't exist their racism would still be diluted by interacting with non-racists, especially the people they dont like. Isn't that how racism declines with time? Not because Antifa takes to the streets to battle racists, but because turning the other cheek changes hearts.

For example, lets say a white racist at work says something racist and a black employee hears it. If the black employee tells the boss and the white racist gets fired, will he become less or more racist? What if instead the black employee gives him a 2nd chance, forgives him? Now the white racist owes his job to the black employee. Gentle persuasion is better than 'punch a Nazi' or shouting down racists.