There is no legitmate government in Venezuela, says former Supreme Court Justice

I have better things to do than to argue with Luiz, but since he puts so much stress on oil production, I will point out that the numbers he quotes do not match the actual numbers in any of the the primary sources about oil production in Venezuela.
In particular the page Luiz linked to gives a source (US DOE) which, if you bother to check, gives different numbers. There was indeed a reduction in production in 2001-03, not surprising given the damage caused by that conflict. There was no further reduction if you compare, for example, 2003 with 2012, neither in the DOE nor in the OPEC statistics. It seems that the "baboons", as he so colourfully put it, managed to keep the company going... :rolleyes:
 
You have claimed the moon landings never happened exactly the same number of times I have claimed to know for a fact that Chávez is dead or in coma.

I have never made *any* claims or opinions about the moon landings. Zero, zip, nada. You have made claims/opinions on Chavez' health. Not only that, you have given "opinions" as to why he/Maduro/"the regimes" is lying about his health.

But let's suppose I did use your terminology regarding the moon landings, suppose I said:

"I don't beleive for one second" the moon landings were real.
"best case scenario" is the rockets were launched but never made it to the moon.

and regarding the moon landing photos:
"the pictures could or could not be real" and then when challenged on it,
"anybody with a studio could have faked those images"

and then when somebody called me out on these, I again restated that lack of information and hypothetical ease of faking is what I based my assertions on.




Who would believe that was not what I actually believed?
Who do you think you are fooling by denying your beliefs by doing a little dance and jig?

I'll also note that while some very small nations and territories might have a violence rate comparable to Venezuela, that's not the point. The point is it only got bad after Chávez was elected; Venezuela wasn't at all a war zone before he ruined the country.

Venezuela already had a pretty high crime rate when Chavez took office. And most of Latin America has seen a crime wave this past decade.

Output didn't fall every year from 1997 to 200; in fact 1997 itself was a year of intense growth. As I said some fluctuation is normal. You're making a big deal out of a small fluctuation in 1997-2000 and dismissing a freakin' 30% drop in a decade in which production should have increased dramatically given unprecedentedly favorable market conditions. But you're being dishonest, as will be made clear below.

Output did not fall every year from 2001 - 2012, either. It rose in 2004, 2005, and 2011. But it has never reached the output of 1997. In 1997, these people were in charge of PDVSA. They also were in 98, 99, and 2000.
 
I have better things to do than to argue with Luiz, but since he puts so much stress on oil production, I will point out that the numbers he quotes do not match the actual numbers in any of the the primary sources about oil production in Venezuela.
In particular the page Luiz linked to gives a source (US DOE) which, if you bother to check, gives different numbers. There was indeed a reduction in production in 2001-03, not surprising given the damage caused by that conflict. There was no further reduction if you compare, for example, 2003 with 2012, neither in the DOE nor in the OPEC statistics. It seems that the "baboons", as he so colourfully put it, managed to keep the company going... :rolleyes:
Provide sources. I have provided mine...

I have never made any claims about the moon landings.

But let's suppose I did use your terminology regarding the moon landings, suppose I said:

"I don't beleive for one second" the moon landings were real.
"best case scenario" is the rockets were launched but never made it to the moon.

and regarding the moon landing photos:
"the pictures could or could not be real" and then when challenged on it,
"anybody with a studio could have faked those images"

and then when somebody called me out on these, I again restated that lack of information and hypothetical ease of faking is what I based my assertions on.

Who would believe that was not what I actually believed?
The difference of course is that the moon landing are an easily verifiable fact, while Chávez's health condition.

I was not comparing the moon landings with the Chávez's condition, but rather you making the claim that it never happened with me saying that I *know for a fact* that Chávez is dead or in coma.

And all of that doesn't matter, because I only expressed my opinion on a situation which we don't know all the facts. I don't understand your rather crazy refusal in accepting what I say is my opinion. I'll say it again: I don't know what his condition is for sure. Jesus, crazy people.

Venezuela already had a pretty high crime rate when Chavez took office. And most of Latin America has seen a crimewave this past decade.
No, the Venezuelan murder rate was pretty standard for South America, below that of Colombia or Brazil. It increased nearly five-fold since he took over, while the murder rate actually dropped in Brazil, Colombia, Peru and etc.

As you can see even the crimewave of Mexico is nowhere near the Venezuelan warzone. Caracas is more deadly than Baghdad. That you absolve a guy who ruled over a freakin' five-fold increase in the murder rate speaks volumes.

I've never seen or read a positive story about Chavez on the BBC. And I've seen and read a lot of them about Venezuela.
That's because Chávez sucks, as anyone with half a brain acknowledges.
 
The difference of course is that the moon landing are an easily verifiable fact, while Chávez's health condition.

Yes? Not an easily verifiable fact? I laid out my case why I thought he had gone into silence. Why it mirrored Castro's situation when he had the stomach surgery.. ...and of course, why Chavez' health is an easily verifiable fact. He is still alive, and there is a picture of him reading a recent newspaper...

...to which you replied that picture could be faked.

I really don't know how you can honestly say you are being honest.

I was not comparing the moon landings with the Chávez's condition, but rather you making the claim that it never happened

I never made such a claim about the moon landings. NEVER.
with me saying that I *know for a fact* that Chávez is dead or in coma.

You said "I don't believe for one second he is alive and recovering" and "best case scenario is he is in a coma".

Seriously.

Seriously.

Seriously?

Wow.


And all of that doesn't matter, because I only expressed my opinion on a situation which we don't know all the facts. I don't understand your rather crazy refusal in accepting what I say is my opinion. I'll say it again: I don't know what his condition is for sure. Jesus, crazy people.

No, the Venezuelan murder rate was pretty standard for South America, below that of Colombia or Brazil. It increased nearly five-fold since he took over, while the murder rate actually dropped in Brazil, Colombia, Peru and etc.

And rose dramatically in other Latin American countries. You are playing the factoid game. You are picking and choosing countries to fit your opinions.

for example, the murder rate in Belize has increased from 10 per 100,000 to 42 per 100,000 in 15 years.
Mexico's has risen 50% over the past five years, and trends are showing it will continue to rise.
El Salvador has doubled since 1999, as has Guatemala's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade


As you can see even the crimewave of Mexico is nowhere near the Venezuelan warzone. Caracas is more deadly than Baghdad. That you absolve a guy who ruled over a freakin' five-fold increase in the murder rate speaks volumes.

I am just not sure how Chavez is responsible for drug war fueled violence. I have read he has not built enough prisons, and not hired more prosecutors and police. But he has not cut these programs, so why is the rate skyrocketing when there has been little change in the legal infrastructure? Perhaps there are other factors fueling the violence?

And the murder rate has not increased five fold. Funny how you said it was four fold earlier, but now, you have resorted to dishonest statistical inflation in the hopes your case will sound more reasonable.

I see 33 per 100,000 in 2000 compared to 67 per 100,000 in 2011. That is about double, like many other Latin American countries, as I have proven above.

That's because Chávez sucks, as anyone with half a brain acknowledges.

A rise of 17% of the population from poverty in 10 years is not all bad. Probably one of the best successes in the world. From 44% below poverty to only 27% below poverty in just 12 years is quite an accomplishment.
 
Yes? Not an easily verifiable fact? I laid out my case why I thought he had gone into silence. Why it mirrored Castro's situation when he had the stomach surgery.. ...and of course, why Chavez' health is an easily verifiable fact. He is still alive, and there is a picture of him reading a recent newspaper...

...to which you replied that picture could be faked.

I really don't know how you can honestly say you are being honest.

I never made such a claim about the moon landings. NEVER.


You said "I don't believe for one second he is alive and recovering" and "best case scenario is he is in a coma".

Seriously.

Seriously.

Seriously?

Wow.
I honestly don't know whether you are being dishonest or if you're outright crazy, and I'm leaning on the latter.

The whole thing started precisely because I said (and please try to quote me in context next time) we have no idea of knowing his true health condition. To which some poster said he is certainly dead or dying, and I said I don't doubt for a second that's really the case, but we don't know for sure.

SO THAT'S MY OPINION, OK? Argue against it, not your made up ****oo-land version of what I think.

And I'm done with that.

Now for whether or not his health is a verifiable fact. Fact is no doctors who treated him were allowed to say anything. Fact is nobody outside of his close circle is allowed even near him, including friends and allies such as Brazil's former president Lula. Fact is he sought treatment in Cuba, hardly the most advanced place out there, instead of the likes of Switzerland, France of Germany (ruling out the US). The only advantage Cuba has over those far more medically advanced places is total secrecy.

So the Venezuelan government went through a lot of trouble, and may even have jeopardized the caudillo's life, only to keep everybody in the dark. And you wonder why people have doubts over his true condition? The most they released were a few lousy photos that really prove nothing. How about a live video?

And does that above prove that he is dead or dying? Of course not. But it sure leaves open vast room for speculation, does it not?

And nearly everybody in Venezuela and abroad believe his condition is much worse than the official version. Even among his supporters.

And rose dramatically in other Latin American countries. You are playing the factoid game. You are picking and choosing countries to fit your opinions.

for example, the murder rate in Belize has increased from 10 per 100,000 to 42 per 100,000 in 15 years.
Mexico's has risen 50% over the past five years, and trends are showing it will continue to rise.
El Salvador has doubled since 1999, as has Guatemala's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade

I am just not sure how Chavez is responsible for drug war fueled violence. I have read he has not built enough prisons, and not hired more prosecutors and police. But he has not cut these programs, so why is the rate skyrocketing when there has been little change in the legal infrastructure? Perhaps there are other factors fueling the violence?

And the murder rate has not increased five fold. Funny how you said it was four fold earlier, but now, you have resorted to dishonest statistical inflation in the hopes your case will sound more reasonable.

I see 33 per 100,000 in 2000 compared to 67 per 100,000 in 2011. That is about double, like many other Latin American countries, as I have proven above.
You're comparing big and resourceful Venezuela to freakin' Belize and El Salvador? Really? Why not compare it to neighbors Colombia or Brazil or Peru, who managed to drastically decrease the murder rate at the same period that Venezuela became a war zone more deadly than Iraq? Oh, and you want to convince us that Venezuela has a worse drug violence problem than Colombia?
I'll tell why Venezuela became worse than Iraq while all its neighbors got much better: Chávez armed his loyal goons and failed to invest in the real police.

Here is the fact: when Chávez took over, there were 4,550 murders in one year. Now there are about 19,500. That's a 4.3 times increase, or "nearly five-fold" as I said. How's that dishonest statistical inflation?
What happened in Venezuela is much worse than anywhere else in the region, really (except Belize, which was similar and has a population of 300K people - so even 1 more murder per year would increase their rate significantly. Try harder next time).

Moderator Action: This is the Chamber. Please keep your posts civil.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
The whole thing started precisely because I said (and please try to quote me in context next time) we have no idea of knowing his true health condition. To which some poster said he is certainly dead or dying, and I said I don't doubt for a second that's really the case, but we don't know for sure.

SO THAT'S MY OPINION, OK? Argue against it, not your made up ****oo-land version of what I think.

Yes, these are all opinions, Luiz. Yours are based on nothing more than wishful thinking. I think I have demonstrated that.

The only advantage Cuba has over those far more medically advanced places is total secrecy.

And for someone who had the US attempt to assassinate him, it is one of the most important.

So the Venezuelan government went through a lot of trouble, and may even have jeopardized the caudillo's life, only to keep everybody in the dark. And you wonder why people have doubts over his true condition? The most they released were a few lousy photos that really prove nothing. How about a live video?

Your "opinion" on the picture is based on wishful thinking.
And does that above prove that he is dead or dying? Of course not. But it sure leaves open vast room for speculation, does it not?

Not really. Certainly not enough for "best case scenario he is in a coma" and "I don't believe for one second he is alive and recovering"

One second? So you never even pondered the idea. What kind of speculation is that. Sounds like a definite assertion to me, and anybody else who would read what you wrote.
And nearly everybody in Venezuela and abroad believe his condition is much worse than the official version. Even among his supporters.
60% of Venezuelans believe he will make a full recovery was the headline I read yesterday.
You're comparing big and resourceful Venezuela to freakin' Belize and El Salvador?
Really? Why not compare it to neighbors Colombia or Brazil or Peru, who managed to drastically decrease the murder rate at the same period that Venezuela became a war zone more deadly than Iraq?
What does size and resources have to do with your argument it is Chavez' policies that is causing the violence?
Oh, and you want to convince us that Venezuela has a worse drug violence problem than Colombia?
I'll tell why Venezuela became worse than Iraq while all its neighbors got much better: Chávez armed his loyal goons and failed to invest in the real police.
I think the numbers speak for themselves. Looks like El Salvador and Guatemala have a bigger drug violence problem too.
Here is the fact: when Chávez took over, there were 4,550 murders in one year. Now there are about 19,500. That's a 4.3 times increase, or "nearly five-fold" as I said. How's that dishonest statistical inflation?
I see 25 per 100,000 in 1999 compared to 67 per 100,000 in 2011.

The population in 1999 was 23.2M. In 2012, it was 27.2 million, an increase of 4M, or about 17%. So I think per capita numbers are better for comparing crime rates. 17% of 19,500 would be 3362, or 16,138. So using reported murders adjusted for population increase would make by your own numbers the increase about 3.5 times. "nearly quadruple" by a smidge, nowhere near "nearly fivefold".

Even so, 4.3 is not 5, nor is it "nearly" 5, it would need to be at least 4.5 to claim even spuriously it was nearly 5. That is dishonest statistical inflation. My per capita numbers say it's about a 2.7 times increase. Obviously there are some discrepancies in the numbers used, but it must be noted when comparing Venezuela to other countries, I used the per capita numbers, not raw numbers divided by population growth to estimate per capita, so I compared similar statistical methods.
What happened in Venezuela is much worse than anywhere else in the region, really (except Belize, which was similar and has a population of 300K people - so even 1 more murder per year would increase their rate significantly. Try harder next time).
But that "one" more would be a statistical anomaly if it was only one year, but it has been increasing for a decade.

And how is Belize similar? Is Chavez at fault for the Belize crime wave as well? That is all that is being discussed here, Chavez' responsibility for the crime wave in Venezuela. Everything else is an attempt to confuse the issue. I am merely pointing out that Venezuela was not the only region hit by a crime wave.

I've provided the links. People can look at all the numbers of all the countries in the area themselves, and make their judgements, or they can trust the word of you, whose "opinions" are based on wishful thinking and a want to blame Chavez for everything.
 
Moderator Action: Keep things civil please.
 
Yes, these are all opinions, Luiz. Yours are based on nothing more than wishful thinking. I think I have demonstrated that.
No it's based on this:
-Nobody except the highest rank of the Politburo is allowed near him; even close allies like Lula were forbidden;
-He has not spoken a word in over two months;
-No live video is released;
-He sought treatment in a backwards secretive island instead of an advanced medical center, which may have cost him his life;
-The Venezuelan government used illegal shennenigans to make sure they wouldn't need to call elections if he failed to show up in one month (meaning they knew he was doing very poorly).

And for someone who had the US attempt to assassinate him, it is one of the most important.
And the conspiracy theories return!
Show where and when the US government attempted to assassinate him.
Reliable sources please.

And I will hold you accountable for this false and outlandish claim.

Your "opinion" on the picture is based on wishful thinking.

Not really. Certainly not enough for "best case scenario he is in a coma" and "I don't believe for one second he is alive and recovering"

One second? So you never even pondered the idea. What kind of speculation is that. Sounds like a definite assertion to me, and anybody else who would read what you wrote.
I already provided the reasons for my opinion. I also stated that it is a possibility that he's recovering, though I strongly doubt it.

60% of Venezuelans believe he will make a full recovery was the headline I read yesterday.
Source.

What does size and resources have to do with your argument it is Chavez' policies that is causing the violence?
Size has to do with the fact that, unlike micro-nation Belize, a few extra murders per year won't show up as a massive spike. Resources have to do with the fact that unlike bankrupt Guatemala, Venezuela is more than capable of having a proper police force and dealing with criminality efficiently, like Colombia did.

I think the numbers speak for themselves.
They sure do. Venezuela under Chávez went from being one of the safer South American countries to the most dangerous, by far. Caracas became more deadly than Baghdad.

Looks like El Salvador and Guatemala have a bigger drug violence problem too.
And? Those are Central American countries. Why should Venezuela follow them and not neighbors Colombia, Peru or Brazil? Why did the rest of South America get better while Venezuela got worse? Care to answer that?

I see 25 per 100,000 in 1999 compared to 67 per 100,000 in 2011.

The population in 1999 was 23.2M. In 2012, it was 27.2 million, an increase of 4M, or about 17%. So I think per capita numbers are better for comparing crime rates. 17% of 19,500 would be 3362, or 16,138. So using reported murders adjusted for population increase would make by your own numbers the increase about 3.5 times. "nearly quadruple" by a smidge, nowhere near "nearly fivefold".
Curious, you were seeing over 30 before.
Simple calculations show a rate of 19 per 100K in 1999 compared to over 71 in 2012 (using your population numbers). That's a 3.75-fold increase in the per capita rate, with a 4.3-fold increase in the number of murders themselves.

Even so, 4.3 is not 5, nor is it "nearly" 5, it would need to be at least 4.5 to claim even spuriously it was nearly 5. That is dishonest statistical inflation. My per capita numbers say it's about a 2.7 times increase. Obviously there are some discrepancies in the numbers used, but it must be noted when comparing Venezuela to other countries, I used the per capita numbers, not raw numbers divided by population growth to estimate per capita, so I compared similar statistical methods.
Your numbers are wrong.
And I won't debate whether "near 5" is acceptable for 4.3. I don't want to be dragged into your bizarro world.

And how is Belize similar? Is Chavez at fault for the Belize crime wave as well? That is all that is being discussed here, Chavez' responsibility for the crime wave in Venezuela. Everything else is an attempt to confuse the issue. I am merely pointing out that Venezuela was not the only region hit by a crime wave.
It's similar to Belize in seriousness, that's obviously what I meant. Belize was the only country to experience a crime increase as bad as Venezuela, but it's not a good comparison because it's a freakin' micro-nation.

I've provided the links. People can look at all the numbers of all the countries in the area themselves, and make their judgements, or they can trust the word of you, whose "opinions" are based on wishful thinking and a want to blame Chavez for everything.
You certainly haven't provided links.

I'm especially curious about your sources for this supposed assassination attempt by the US government against Chávez. A mainstream, non-conspiracy theorist source please.
 
60% of Venezuelans are not professional doctors with knowledge of Chavez's true condition.

It was news yesterday that he is going under another serious operation or treatment or whatever. His days are numbered.

Also regarding violence in Venezuela, I don't think people understand when they live comfortably in the west and are only looking at figures on a computer at their desk chair, but Venezuela is bloody dangerous, even for latin american standards. I know, I lived in the country.

It is a normal occurrence to be murdered over a cell phone or a motorcycle. The first 2-3 pages of the local daily city newspaper are filled with just brief pictures/descriptions of the various murders that took place around the city the day before, and keep in mind I lived in one of the safer, richer tourist cities of the country.

My family even has first-hand experience with the overall violence the country suffers from. We regularly received phone calls in our business phone of threats that 'some group' would kidnap my younger cousins and torture and kill them unless my relatives gave money to an undisclosed bank account. All because we had a successful tourism business. These groups would then go on and talk about (with a degree of accuracy) what routes my cousins take to school every day etc. so they weren't completely empty threats if someone was spying on them.

It is not like this in other Latin American countries aside for drug-war regions of Mexico, and it was not like this in the past before Chavez took over from what I gathered from people I've talked to.

As for oil, I admittedly don't know too much on the details but I do know that there is a very large number of Venezuelan expats who were previously employed by PDVSA, currently residing and working in the 'sands in Calgary.
 
The Maduro regime is releasing small and dosed pieces of information indicating that the caudillo is getting worse. Now they are insinuating that "the enemy" might be behind his sickness or worsened condition.

What the hell is going on? Are they preparing the stage to announce Chávez is dead or terminally ill? Will the announcement be followed by a purge?
 
A United States diplomat will be expelled from Venezuela within 24 hours for plotting against the government, Vice President Nicholas Maduro has said.

In a live address to the nation on Tuesday, Maduro said the US embassy military official was being expelled from the country for seeking out active Venezuelan military officials to propose "destabilisation projects."

Maduro identified the Amnerican as the Air Force attache and said he had been spying on the military. US Embassy spokesman Greg Adams identified the attache as David Delmonaco.

Maduro also accused Venezuela's "historic enemies" of being behind the cancer of President Hugo Chavez.

"Chavez was attacked with this disease... The historic enemies of this nation looked for how to harm the health of our commander."

He went on to say that a scientific commission will investigate the possibility Chavez's illness was caused by an enemy attack, and that the country is enduring its "most difficult" hours since Chavez underwent cancer surgery three months ago.

Maduro reiterated that Chavez had a "very severe" infection and "complications in his respiratory situation."

Al Jazeera's Gabriel Elizondo, reporting from Caracas, said the speech came after a meeting Maduro held with top government and military officials.

The government announced on Monday night that Chavez was in "very delicate" condition after suffering a new, severe respiratory infection.

Chavez anointed Maduro as his preferred successor before flying to Cuba in early December to undergo a fourth round of surgery for an unspecified cancer in his pelvic area.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2013/03/20133518129562925.html
 
They just reported it on BBC R4 also
 
MSNBC has it. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/05/17135772-venezuelas-comandante-hugo-chavez-dies?lite

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, the charismatic leftist who dominated his country with sweeping political change and flamboyant speeches, died Tuesday at age 58, after a long battle with cancer that was shrouded in mystery and prevented him from being inaugurated for a fourth term.

Adored or reviled for his self-styled populist revolution, Chavez held sway over Venezuela through a cult of personality, government reforms that championed the downtrodden, and an endless stream of rhetoric denouncing capitalism, imperialism and the United States.
The "Chavistas" praised El Comandante for reducing extreme poverty and expanding access to health care and education. Critics blamed him for high inflation, food shortages, escalating crime and mismanagement of the country’s oil industry.



Human rights groups lambasted him for politicizing the judicial branch, and undermining the democratic system of checks and balances.

To many he was a charming populist who sang and danced on his weekly television show and gave the impoverished a voice; others saw him as an autocrat who plastered his portrait all over the country and failed to deliver on the promises of what he called the "Bolivarian revolution."

"He will be remembers as someone who generated over 14 years an international presence and impact way beyond his country's size or wealth and beyond his own talent and personal charisma," said Jorge Castenada, the former Mexico foreign minister and NBC's Latin American policy analyst.

"And I think he'll be remembered for having tried to make a life of poor people in Venezuela better but in the end of the day, having made it worse. When the consequences of his economic policies become apparent, it will end up that he spent an enormous amount of money to make people a little better off for a short period of time."

The last two years of his presidency were overshadowed by his health struggles. After declaring himself free of an unspecified cancer, he fended off a tough challenge to win re-election in 2012 — even giving an epic nine-hour speech during the campaign.

He soon relapsed and was rushed to Cuba for surgery. He was deemed too sick to be sworn into office in early January, and was still gravely ill when he made a surprise return to Venezuela in mid-February, heralded on a Twitter account with 4 million followers.

His deputies insisted he was still in control, signing documents and holding meetings in a Caracas hospital room even if a tube in his throat had silenced his well-known voice. But by this week, the end seemed imminent with reports of a new respiratory infection.

In an address to the nation Tuesday afternoon, Vice President Nicholas Maduro said Chavez was facing his "most difficult hours." A few hours later, he announced Chavez's death.

Born July 28, 1954, to schoolteachers in a small Venezuelan village, Chavez was raised by his grandmother and entered the military academy in Caracas at age 17. Six years later, inspired by the life of 19th century South American revolutionary Simon Bolivar, he formed a secret movement within the army.

Rising through the military to the rank of captain, he led a bloody coup attempt in 1992 that failed and landed him in prison. Pardoned two years later, the ex-paratrooper re-launched his revolt against the ruling class and announced his candidacy for president in 1998.

"The resurrection of Venezuela has begun, and nothing and no one can stop it,'' he bellowed to a roaring crowd after a landslide victory made him the youngest president in the history of Venezuela.

As president, Chavez created a new constitution and had the name of the country changed to the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela. He took greater control of the state-run oil company, expanded the country’s armed forces, and instituted government programs to create jobs, housing and services for the poor.

A 2009 report by the progressive think tank Center for Economic and Policy Research found poverty was cut in half during the first decade of Chavez’s rule; child mortality fell by a third; malnutrition deaths were down by 50%; and college enrollment almost doubled.

At the same time, one non-government report estimated Venezuela’s murder rate quadrupled while Chavez was in power. In 2012, inflation hit 18%. Accusations of corruption and nepotism dogged his administration.

Problems aside, he enjoyed tremendous loyalty from his supporters. A 2002 coup during an economic crisis kept him out of power for just two days — and he claimed the United States had orchestrated it.

Chavez’s relations with the U.S. — referred to derisively as the "empire" in his epic speeches — were icy. He called President George W. Bush "the devil" and "the king of vacations." In 2010, he demanded Secretary of State Hillary Clinton resign "along with those other delinquents working in the State Department."

He lavished praise on Libya’s Moammar Gadhafi and Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmedinejad, but his staunchest ally was Cuba. He kept the island nation flush with oil in exchange for its well-trained doctors and teachers, and he was visiting Havana when he fell ill in June 2011.

In an address to the nation a few weeks later, he admitted neglecting his health and said it was Fidel Castro who got him to admit he wasn’t feeling well, leading to the discovery of a tumor in his pelvis and emergency surgery.

In the following months, the twice-divorced Catholic shuttled between Cuba and Caracas for treatment even as he sought a fourth term, made possible because he had pushed through the abolition of term limits in the constitution he had rewritten.

Days before the election he would win with 54 percent of the vote to his opponent’s 45 percent, he spoke to a rally of supporters in Caracas, displaying the trademark swagger that had made him one of Latin America’s most captivating, if polarizing, leaders.

"Since I haven’t failed you in these 14 years," he said, according to the Associated Press. "I promise I won’t fail you in the next presidential term.

"Because Chavez doesn’t lie. Because Chavez doesn’t sell out. Because Chavez is the people. Because Chavez is truth. Because all of you are Chavez. We all are."
 
So he was dead indeed.

Turns out I was right.

Haven't you been pushing this theory where he's been dead for awhile and it's been covered up while his hand-picked successor was put in charge? I don't think that is validated yet.



EDIT: Ace, you posting this in the Tavern?
 
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